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Synthetics In Fragrances And Perfumes

Discussion in 'IFRA and Synthetics vs Natural' started by Ouddict, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. Nikhil S

    Nikhil S Resident Reviewer

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    @Ouddict Education is the privilege of privileges. Only one who lives among those deprived knows its value. I cannot defend traditional medicine quoting scientific articles and terminologies. I have done extensive research in the field of genetics in Breast Cancer. Cancer has always existed. I give an example because it’s one of the most challenging puzzles for science. Men and women have given up everything in its research. Internet based home scientists should have some respect for Science. I use Oud to assist me with surgery. To cope up with the stress. People must choose for themselves. How can man be without nature ? Nature is everything. The Asian doctor remark comes from lack of self confidence and respect for fellow beings. I am a third gen doctor in my family who lives in a small town giving up all opportunities to serve the hopes of the poor patients. Low cost health services for the rural population. I cannot even begin to tell you how blessed I feel to help people fight death. And how painful it is to be of no help in uncurable advanced diseases. It takes balls to be in my position. I will share this honestly with all my friends here, it is the google educated privileged lot who asks the most insulting questions and later comes for a discount too. The poor knows the value of good science. Anyway, brother Nadeem raised the comment very sensibly. His matter has substance. It feels nice to have someone value both sides of the coin. Science will always evolve. Science is a silent protest against stubborn traditions in society. Those who reap its benefits should not be so oblivious. Cheers to all.
     
  2. VPhong

    VPhong Oud Tea

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    Just want to say I really love the discussion here. It is very informative and shows the depth and knowledge of everyone here. Whilst I dont have anything to add to the topic I want to share a thought so that perhaps we all can spend more of our time doing the things we love.
    ---------------------------------------------

    Often a time I feel a person’s perception/believe is based on their own experiences and level of understanding at that moment in time. Is it wrong? Obviously not for him/her. Perhaps it is youth and he/she had not the time to broaden his horizons? Furthermore we are individuals with different talents in different fields, we understand and pick up things at different speed based on subject.

    We are all the product of evolution and in this lifetime we will evolve in many of our beliefs and understanding many a times as we develop from life’s experiences and challenges. Many a times I have faced people who are set in their ways and beliefs different from mine – their doors were closed to me and I could not enter to explain nor convince them otherwise. Then 2 years, 3 years passed and they have seen more, experienced more, they are no longer closed in their minds, and have opened their doors to reason. This is life and once upon a time I was the one who had closed his door.

    There is a time for righting wrongs, a time to simply plant a seed, depending on what goals you wish to achieve. Then there is a time to be understanding and move on and by being kind and open minded you are actually being kind to yourself, less conflict, less stress, more time to drink some tea and sniff oud :):Laugh::Laugh::Roflmao::Roflmao:
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  3. joev

    joev Whats this Oud About?

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    Like I've said, I adore naturals, NOTHING beats them, but I adore some odors too that aren't all naturals. Flavor and Fragrance as a whole has little to do with petroleum compared to say diesels, manufacturing, infrastructure, etc. There are worse offenders. Would you rather live next to a drunk driver or a killer?

    That aside, as far as allergies, I Hate those restrictions. They have ruined many classics that are enduring for a reason. Luckily, they can't tell me since a rose contains 200 chemicals, and 150 of them can affect your health (again, look at previous comments on cigs), then you can't buy rose absolute. Silly. Allergies suck too though. I have chronic idiopathic urticaria (chronic hives with no know cause that can drive you nuts to hell) and steroids only make them go away. I also have breathing problems, smoker since I was 13, (I'm in my 40's now and quit nearly one year ago, woohoo!) So I know what allergies can do, but I'd let my skin get a little red and irritated than not wear my rose abs. mixed with oud.
     
  4. RisingPhoenix

    RisingPhoenix Resident Artisan

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    I know all 3 men you mention - they are all quite interesting and intelligent folks. They have a lot of great information and insight to share with the world, and even though I don't always agree with all of it - I appreciate all of what they have to say.

    One thing that drives me nuts about the criticism of naturals - is the term "allergy". Tisserand and I have been known to butt heads on this one.

    Allergies, technically speaking, require a reaction to a protein - and are known as "True allergies". As there are no proteins in Essential Oils - there can be no True Allergies to them. Natural oil sensitivities are best nomenclated as Pseudo-Allergies or Chemical Sensitivities.

    I find public discourse about natural materials - including any discussion with or about IFRA and with other industry insiders to be maddening, as they can't even use or acknowledge the proper terminology. I've been known to get a lot of heat from some well known perfumers for bringing this point up. As if using proper terminology somehow will harm public safety. Haha
     
    okonos, Habz786, Ouddict and 3 others like this.
  5. joev

    joev Whats this Oud About?

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    God to know!
     
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  6. Nikhil S

    Nikhil S Resident Reviewer

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    Hypersensitivity is the right term. Its could be early or delayed. For simplification, let’s just classify it as acute allergies and delayed allergies. Most of the allergies that happen suddenly and go away are body’s immediate reaction and it’s easily treatable. Allergy is unavoidable. Some people can die of eating peanuts or prawns. Are they banned ? Hell No. We all know it’s a bunch of chemical lobbyists sitting there making a mockery of nature. But the only issue really is Production of limited resources like flowers and rare woods. And in my humble opinion partial inability of the dominating french perfume industry to gather inexpensive material. And the hanging sword of batch consistency over perfumers’ heads. Now to top it all, let’s also understand that perfume manufacturers have become tremendously efficient at mimicking natural aromas. It’s very difficult to make out difference between naturals and synthetics now. At times synthetics are more expensive than naturals. Their materials are ideal for usage in perfumery as opposed to the eccentric nature of natural materials. I don’t know who’s wrong and who’s right. But I am glad to see efforts to repopularise natural perfumery has been substantially successful. Fussy/paid reviewers are willing to look beyond stuff like Guerlain. Kudos to everyone who has made this possible every distiller/perfumer on both the forums and otherwise. I never thought people would wear actual Oud in perfumery but look at what Russian Adam has been able to achieve. I am flooded by messages from perfume loving friends across the globe. Mark my words, the natural perfume industry will gather huge momentum within the next decade. Indie Perfumers based outside EU are already ready to take the plunge. Nothing to be crazy about but it’s quite encouraging to see my viewership grow from a couple thousands to nearly 10k as of today. That from statistics POV dealing with natural/artisanal scents shows a paradigm shift in market interest. God bless all. Keep up the good work. #gonatural
     
  7. Ouddict

    Ouddict Administrator

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    Great post Nikhil (and @RisingPhoenix )
     
    RisingPhoenix and Nikhil S like this.
  8. joev

    joev Whats this Oud About?

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    "Hypersensitivity is the right term."--is the exact term too! I too am frustrated now that I know the IFRA doesn't seem to know what an allergen is. Did you know that ISO-Super E is an allergan?
     
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  9. Nikhil S

    Nikhil S Resident Reviewer

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    There s a disease in children called Steven Johnson's Syndrome where one can develop painful crustations all over the body caused by any of the safe drugs. Its such a horrible thing. Thats why we put test doses for each and every drug on patients. I have seen acute deaths of healthy patients from a simple dose of the most commonly used painkiller i.e. Diclofenac Sodium. I have seen deaths from aneasthetic spray for basic oral procedure. So as a clinician I can tell potentially anything can trigger an inflammatory reaction in a human body. There are no indicators to predict it. As a rule of thumb, one must test any perfume/scent/cosmetic on forearm before usage. But do we ? And forget about things which can cause cross reactions when met with another enhancing molecule. I know of family members who had to give up fish or eggs or milk after decades of usage. Baffling isnt it ? Read about lactose intolerance where cant ingest milk proteins at all. So this is a very diverse subject. I am sure IFRA has a lot of scientists who know what they are doing. However common knowledge in ciculation is nothing short of crap. Whatever it is guys, be safe, stay safe. Dont believe the all natural, all organic drama too. I am a health care professional and I can tell how harmful these overconfident dumb people are to society. Health is not wisdom, its science. Cheers
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2018
    Ouddict likes this.
  10. Ouddict

    Ouddict Administrator

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    Spot on again... I prefer natural fragrances, but also have a healthy respect for the capabilities of scientific research... some people have no perspective, or seek to cynically profit from people's ignorance with scare tactics.

    People ought to read the sections "Why 'natural' does not always mean good" and "Why 'chemicals' does not always mean bad" in "The Secret of Scent" by Luca Turin. Many natural compounds are toxic as they contain dangerous chemicals... but all natural!

    Don't get me wrong. I am no fan of synthetics, but at the same time I detest ignorance masquerading as wisdom even more. Some humility goes a long way when we admit that we do not know.
     
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  11. Nikhil S

    Nikhil S Resident Reviewer

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    I don’t give much importance to Turin s critique of scents. He sounds like a typical lobbyist but his lectures are totally different. I love going through his videos. There’s a lot once can find on YouTube. Free stuff. Good stuff.
     
  12. Ouddict

    Ouddict Administrator

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    If you haven't, yet, read his Secret of Scent... fascinating read and worth it just for the first few pages. I don't know about his lobbying interests - all I know is that he is a quasi-academic/writer who thinks he may have cracked the olfactory mechanism that enables us to smell and experience scent...
     
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  13. joev

    joev Whats this Oud About?

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    Turin, and Lutens' imagery--a million years ago, before he had marketing teams--is what got me to collect his ente line, except for two Sectio d'Ors.
     
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  14. joev

    joev Whats this Oud About?

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    anyone can have anaphylactic shock for the introduction of anything to the body, and die of suffocation, which almost happened to me. i am highly allergic to Nsaids, especially Aleve, I have EpiPens all over the place in case i take one by accident. My throat closed, wheezing at best....eyes swollen shut, i could barely speak, and what i did didn't make sense.

    Yes, they have scientists that are working hard to avoid hazardous materials. But there's a point, I don't know what it is, what they let death be a suitable side effect. It's on all our prescriptions.

    would you have agreed with the outlaw of lead paints? If so, of all that amazing art we wouldn't have in our world. If they outlawed Aleve because 1 out of every 10,000 people have a bad reaction to it, should you punish those that don't? I simply avoid Aleve, ibuprofen, aspirin, and the like. Like someone said they avoid GMOs, etc. So be it. I say let Aleve Live! instead of being addicted to tylenol or oxys.
     
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  15. okonos

    okonos Whats this Oud About?

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