Frankincense Oils And Extracts

Discussion in 'General' started by Mr.P, Jan 27, 2019.

  1. Mr.P

    Mr.P True Ouddict

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    I love frankincense, but struggle with finding a completely appealing frankincense oil. I have distillates and CO2 extracts of sacra from Oman, CO2 of serrata, several absolutes / resinoids of carterii, a freereana distillate, and an oil labeled "frankincense resin" (from an herb shop in Seattle) that is very thick and viscous, like vetiver.

    The distillates and CO2 oils are great in their own way, but they are extremely shrill in one way or another. The thick oil is nice - has the unique citrus frankincse top notes, albeit milder, and a nice rich heart note that really has, for lack of a suitable adjective, a delightful rich heated resin scent. Ironically, it is the only oil whose authenticity I question because of the source and its unusual viscosity.

    Do any of you have the perfect frankincense oil? If so, where did you get it? Any leads on truly epic frankincense oils?
     
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  2. Sproaty

    Sproaty Sproudy Staff Member

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    I have one from Rising Phoenix, another that @Shabby distilled himself and another from Ish @Royalbengalouds (which was unlabelled but has that definite citric frankincense hit) - but I don't get much longevity from any of them :( an hour, maybe an hour and half.

    they all have that fresh, citric smell to them though.
    @tyson uses it in a blend ('royal green hojary') too
     
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  3. Mr.P

    Mr.P True Ouddict

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    Thank you. The thick one lasts a few hours, the others less.

    I am wondering if anyone here from parts of the world where frankincense is mainstream has broad experience with frankincense extracts, and if they know of sources of other thick, honey-like frankincense oils they are sure are authentic?
     
  4. Shabby

    Shabby Junior Member

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    Hey Mr. P, I’m actually sort of on a mission to try and create a high quality frankincense oil. It’s a long term project but I’m slowly experimenting with different ways. I work part time at The Frankincense Store in London so I work with the sacra resin a lot.

    It is frustrating that the richness of the resin aroma isn’t really captured by traditional distillation - I have tried steam and hydro for the resin and so far no luck. Vacuum distillation might be the way to go since the temperature required for distillation is much lower. White Lotus Aromatics have such an oil, although I have not tried it myself.

    The best oil I’ve tried is probably the Rising Phoenix sacra oil, which is thick and lasts for a long time. I actually distilled an oil that lasts several hours, but that’s only because the resin began to burn at the bottom of the pot and induced smokier notes. It is a beastly oil, not pretty but quite interesting in its own way.

    Anyway, I’m working on it...hope to report back with something good in the near future, deo volente.
     
  5. umaribrahim

    umaribrahim Whats this Oud About?

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    I get from person directly lived in Salalah, Oman. This guy have almost all grade of frankincense from Sultan Royal Blue-Green.

    This one from Boswellia Sacra Hojari Grade. Distilled in oman IMG-20190127-WA0022.jpg IMG-20190127-WA0023.jpg IMG-20190127-WA0024.jpg
     
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  6. Sproaty

    Sproaty Sproudy Staff Member

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    Hey Shabby - this one? I have it and it's very runny, so I wonder if he had another, more viscous one?
    https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/579004029/omani-frankincense-special-reserve?ref=shop_home_active_6
     
  7. Shabby

    Shabby Junior Member

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    Oh @Sproaty I might have misremembered because the oil has been in a half-full bottle for several years so it probably became oxidised and hence sticky. Also I was sent it before it was listed on Etsy as a sample so it may be a different batch...but having corresponded with JK about it I assume it is the same...or at least very similar.

    By the way you can do that with any of your frankincense oils - just increase the area exposed to oxygen and it will become sticky and longevity will increase.
     
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  8. Sproaty

    Sproaty Sproudy Staff Member

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    thank you :) My bottle's 1g and I've had it half a year, will be interesting to watch it change over time
     
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  9. okonos

    okonos Whats this Oud About?

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  10. Shabby

    Shabby Junior Member

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  11. okonos

    okonos Whats this Oud About?

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    Hi, I do have 'vital oil' from both of carterii and papyrifera, and an EO of 'Aquamarine frankincense'. The former two are thicker and are broad spectrum, having more of the resinous compounds present due to the extraction process being not only distillation, so they are very interesting. The latter has a unique scent, different to other frankincenses. At the moment, unfortunately, I have a problem with my sense of smell, so I can't revisit these and say more...

     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
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  12. Mr.P

    Mr.P True Ouddict

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    That video doesn’t tell you very much other than pretty much promoting a product. I’m guessing this is some kind of vacuum / fractional distillation off of an extract of some kind, maybe a blend of volatile and extracted oils? I know that lots of flavor and fragrance industry companies have proprietary extractions, and I have seen some of these for frankincense in particular. I once had a frankincense extract produced by a company called Pierre Chauvet. They were located in seillans, France and called their secret extracts “seilanessences”

    It was a somewhat more viscous yellow oily liquid with scent notes that included the typical distilled oil as well as what you would find in the resin and absolute extracts.
     
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  13. Al Shareef Oudh

    Al Shareef Oudh Resident Artisan

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    You bring up a very interesting point which is a fact in the perfumery business. The quality of ingredients together with perfumery skill determines how good the final fragrance will be, one without the other will lead to a mediocre fragrance. For this reason many companies hold close to their chests the methods that give them an edge over competition in the development of the oils and resinoids. The opposite side of this very coin can be seen in the mainstream perfume business, with companies like Givaudan supplying the flavours and compounds for 50%+ of the perfumes in the market it should not be a big surprise that so many of the mainstream perfumes smell the same.

    This poses an interesting challenge in the oudh/natural perfumery community, where the members want to know every single detail possible. Whilst we would love to share we also have to be cautious how much we share so that we are not giving away from our IP. One particular example that comes to mind is we shared some techniques on here with a few members regarding the handling and preparation of musk and a few weeks later we saw those very steps in a video by another company/vendor who wished to promote themselves as musk expert.

    Anyhow I do not wish to hijack your very interesting thread, but i felt it is important to agree with your IP remark and share a consequence of it prior to sharing the below;

    Frankincense is an interesting resin, the fragrant compounds in frankincense exist in three distinct chemical structures. Those that are soluble in water, those that are not soluble in water but are able to be extracted by water, and those that water has no effect on and can be categorised by their solubility in solvents and those that are not soluble in solvents.

    When burning the resin itself, at each heat interval over time a different compound from the above structure is released and as the time progresses and the heat is increased the denser compounds begin to break off from the surface and also rise for us to be able to sense them.

    Understanding this behaviour dictates that for a fuller frankincense experience or one that closely mimics heating of the resin, multi step, multi solution distillation has to take place in order to capture more of the fragrant compounds from those distinct structures.

    Unfortunately hydro/steam distilled frankincense lacks much of the depth and dimension of frankincense, the oils is very light, nearly spirit like and it is very easily absorbed by the skin so it doesnt last long at all.

    Solvent extract is too dense and usually solidifies so it isnt really wearable neat.

    and between those two is the sweet spot.
     
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  14. Shabby

    Shabby Junior Member

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    Thank you for this great post @Al Shareef Oudh.

    Please don’t feel obliged to answer or give away house secrets but is there something between those two (between hydro/steam distillation and solvent extraction, that is).

    I invested my hope in vacuum distillation, for the reasons that you mentioned - especially the fact that it allows one to obtain the heavier compounds without overheating (relatively speaking).

    On the other hand, my experience with both burning and distilling frankincense tells me that there is a lot of therapeutic benefit in the smokier notes that come out later in the heating process, and later in the distillation too. I really believe there is some magic in the ‘burnt’ notes. The oil I distilled where the resin seems to have been burnt is probably my most therapeutic oil, albeit the least pretty. It’s also the longest lasting meaning I have a higher proportion of the heaviest molecules if my deductions are correct. What’s missing is a balanced top and the upper heart and heart notes especially.

    Again please don’t feel obliged to answer but did you use your own special technique for distilling the frankincense you used in one of your mukhallats?
     
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  15. Mr.P

    Mr.P True Ouddict

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    Yes - you have every right to protect proprietary information of course.

    I agree that the distillates are “spirit like” - that’s a useful adjective.

    I wonder if the honey-like stuff I have is authentic. It’s not perfect, but it is a nice break from the other oils.

    It would be a fun kind of work I imagine to experiment with extracting at different temperature and pressure combinations, try different solvents, and so on.

    I’ve made alcohol tinctures that were wonderful in their own ways but they (predictably) left a sticky frankincense lacquer on everything, both annoying and excellent at the same time but mostly annoying.

    I’m guessing there’s a way to precipitate the sticky stuff but I never really tried.
     
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  16. Mr.P

    Mr.P True Ouddict

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    Has the recent buzz about incensole acetate already been discussed here?
     
  17. Al Shareef Oudh

    Al Shareef Oudh Resident Artisan

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    The Omani's after a lot of research at their local universities are moving towards microwave extractions using apparatus made in Italy. Whilst I have worked with microwave in sandalwood, I havent done so in Frankincense so I cant say what manipulation of the chemical structures occur. Therapeutic benefit of all natural matter is maximum when there is least manipulation of the chemical structures, for that I agree that vacuum is best.

    We use our own frankincense extraction in our blends, blends that have a decent amount are Turath II, 'Itr Al Ward others have minor amounts for tuning.

    Frankincense in oils doesn't only provide its own profiles, it also aids in longevity and silage.
     
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  18. Mr.P

    Mr.P True Ouddict

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    Have you ever seen authentic honey-like frankincense oils or extracts?

    Also, incensole acetate is apparently a potent anxiolytic antidepressant found in frankincense resin. I read that distilled oils do not have much or any of this chemical and thus lack some of the meditative / psychotropic effects that the actual resin produces (it is hypothesized that this is one reason for the resin being so popular in religious practice - kind of a chemical state of grace or something). Who knew people were doing drugs during religious worship!? Anyway, you probably need to use extracts not distillates if you want to get the true effects of the resin! Interestingly to me, I’ve always preferred the absolute or CO2 extracts over the distilled oils. Maybe that’s why...
     
  19. Sproaty

    Sproaty Sproudy Staff Member

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    Hi @Mr.P - in the recent oudfest, our dear @Shabby brought along a frank oil that he himself distilled that absolutely blew everyone away - it was dark and the complete opposite of any other frankincense I've seen. While not "honeyed" and it was much more viscous than any other oils (which are quite runny) and had amazing longevity. Honestly, one of the best things I tried at the fayre!
    I'm hoping that he releases it soon :D
     
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  20. halim

    halim Oud Relax

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    hi all or salam have any one tried to drink frankiscense in water ? the quality of frankiscense recommanded to drink or chewim ? anyone know where can get the finest frankiscense recommanded vendor ? the drink frankiscense for health are disrecommended or can be make problem in some case ?
    thank you for this forum and the information collected by participation
     
    Tarik likes this.

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