Habz786

Resident Artisan & Ouddict Co-Founder
Still waiting for our first GCMS result, i'm suprised this thread isnt busy with results and discussion and helping people understand their oils deeper. Does anyone have a result of any oud oil even if the name isnt shared i think people could begin by underatanding the compounds and how to tell a pure oil from impure and also how to tell a higher quality oil from a lowe quality one.
 

Al Shareef Oudh

Master Perfumer
a lovely post by Julia Lawless @ http://www.aqua-oleum.co.uk/education_organic

The main method for testing essential oils for their precise chemical make-up is by gas chromatography (GCT). All essential oils & absolutes are volatile which means that they have a tendency to vaporize. Analysis by gas chromatography produces a trace, which shows the order in which the different constituents of an oil vaporize and the quantity of each constituent expressed as a percentage. For example, cineol and terpinen-4-ol in tea tree will always show up in the same place on the time axis of the graph. The trace for good tea tree oil will always show a similar pattern.

Some oils have so many constituents, rose has over 400, that many of them do not even have names but are referred to simply by co-ordinates (time and % quantity) on the trace. Many oils have constituents in common but the proportions differ which is why they have a different odour. This form of analysis is routinely used in the industry in an attempt to remove subjectivity. The large users of essential oils want a guaranteed repeatability so that their products are the same every year.

It was for this reason that the pharmaceutical industry in the UK laid down some standards for commonly used oils which they called B.P. (British Pharmacopeias). For example, eucalyptus, peppermint and clove are still sold in the UK as B.P. quality. However, since these tests were devised, extraction technology has evolved and improved to the extent that modern pure oils do not correspond to the former ‘set standards’. Today there are recipes which are used to make essential oils pass B.P standard tests, and these involve blending them with ‘nature identical’ chemicals. Consequently, many B.P quality oils are typically only 80% essential oil and contrary to what many pharmacists believe, they are very low quality.

However, there are also limitations to GCT’s as an indictor of quality. Although a gas chromatography trace will tell us the quantity of each constituent, it cannot tell us whether the oil is pure or not. For example, if some eucalyptus was also added into the still when tea tree oil is being distilled: the resulting oil will be higher in cineol (quality eucalyptus is at least 80% cineol). An analysis by gas chromatography will tell us how much cineol is in the oil but it will not tell us that the source of some of the cineol was eucalyptus. Spanish rosemary is sometimes distilled with camphorwood, unknown to the consumer, to make a cheaper oil.

Sticky substances (such as many pure absolutes and concretes) are not as volatile as oils and may clog up the equipment. Many providers of GC / MS analysis are reluctant (or refuse) to analyse materials of this type. The situation is made even more complex by the fact that so many of these constituents are available as natural isolates. It is an uncomfortable truth that there is no ‘fool-proof’ reliable test for the purity of essential oils. It is therefore important to always buy essential oils from a reputable supplier who source their products from precise botanical species, and where possible, organically grown plants.

The word ‘organic’ has become a very fashionable term in recent years and a growing number of beauty products are now being produced with organic ingredients. Unfortunately, unlike organic food, there are no legal standards for organic beauty products. So as a result, some companies choose to label a product as 'organic' even if it only contains 1% organic ingredients or if it contains potentially hazardous substances. To safeguard the consumer, the Soil Association provides a certification to products which fulfill their strict organic guidelines.
 

F4R1d0uX

Resident Artisan
a lovely post by Julia Lawless @ http://www.aqua-oleum.co.uk/education_organic

The main method for testing essential oils for their precise chemical make-up is by gas chromatography (GCT). All essential oils & absolutes are volatile which means that they have a tendency to vaporize. Analysis by gas chromatography produces a trace, which shows the order in which the different constituents of an oil vaporize and the quantity of each constituent expressed as a percentage. For example, cineol and terpinen-4-ol in tea tree will always show up in the same place on the time axis of the graph. The trace for good tea tree oil will always show a similar pattern.

Some oils have so many constituents, rose has over 400, that many of them do not even have names but are referred to simply by co-ordinates (time and % quantity) on the trace. Many oils have constituents in common but the proportions differ which is why they have a different odour. This form of analysis is routinely used in the industry in an attempt to remove subjectivity. The large users of essential oils want a guaranteed repeatability so that their products are the same every year.

It was for this reason that the pharmaceutical industry in the UK laid down some standards for commonly used oils which they called B.P. (British Pharmacopeias). For example, eucalyptus, peppermint and clove are still sold in the UK as B.P. quality. However, since these tests were devised, extraction technology has evolved and improved to the extent that modern pure oils do not correspond to the former ‘set standards’. Today there are recipes which are used to make essential oils pass B.P standard tests, and these involve blending them with ‘nature identical’ chemicals. Consequently, many B.P quality oils are typically only 80% essential oil and contrary to what many pharmacists believe, they are very low quality.

However, there are also limitations to GCT’s as an indictor of quality. Although a gas chromatography trace will tell us the quantity of each constituent, it cannot tell us whether the oil is pure or not. For example, if some eucalyptus was also added into the still when tea tree oil is being distilled: the resulting oil will be higher in cineol (quality eucalyptus is at least 80% cineol). An analysis by gas chromatography will tell us how much cineol is in the oil but it will not tell us that the source of some of the cineol was eucalyptus. Spanish rosemary is sometimes distilled with camphorwood, unknown to the consumer, to make a cheaper oil.

Sticky substances (such as many pure absolutes and concretes) are not as volatile as oils and may clog up the equipment. Many providers of GC / MS analysis are reluctant (or refuse) to analyse materials of this type. The situation is made even more complex by the fact that so many of these constituents are available as natural isolates. It is an uncomfortable truth that there is no ‘fool-proof’ reliable test for the purity of essential oils. It is therefore important to always buy essential oils from a reputable supplier who source their products from precise botanical species, and where possible, organically grown plants.

The word ‘organic’ has become a very fashionable term in recent years and a growing number of beauty products are now being produced with organic ingredients. Unfortunately, unlike organic food, there are no legal standards for organic beauty products. So as a result, some companies choose to label a product as 'organic' even if it only contains 1% organic ingredients or if it contains potentially hazardous substances. To safeguard the consumer, the Soil Association provides a certification to products which fulfill their strict organic guidelines.

Very nice brother Mashah Allah !
Yes smell standardization is a real problem.

Now people doesnt accept that a batch is a batch and that makes it unique and ephemeral.
 

dave999

Oud Fan
@Al Shareef Oudh: I thought that organic cosmetics followed similar standards to food. I do know that the US Federal Government recently took 5 companies to court over misuse of the term "natural" on their product labels. Others are now changing labels. I don't generally bother with the front, marketing label. I read the ingredients list and that tells you more objectively what the contents are.

"Organic" certification for food doesn't always mean much. I shop two stores near my house that carry organic produce. Using bananas for example, the organic bananas at store A will be indistinguishable from the regular ones. They will often be the same brand. At store B, the organic bananas will smell and taste better. Needless to say, I prefer to buy bananas from store B. The real deal is determined by my nose. Seems it may also be true that the organic sticker can be bought without any change to the banana being necessary.

GCMS is useful. It may not tell you how good an oil is, but it will give you objective proof if it is synthetic. The nose probably knows already, but that isn't legal proof.
 

Alkhadra

"Master Kafeel" Resident Artisan
GCMS is useful. It may not tell you how good an oil is, but it will give you objective proof if it is synthetic. The nose probably knows already, but that isn't legal proof.

Check this out:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3292139/
"Classification of Agarwood Oil Using an Electric Nose"

Maybe this study will be a good step in figuring out what makes up a darn good oil? I think with enough results, correlations can be made between the results of higher quality oils. But then again, does high quality means it smells objectively good? hmm, for example, an oil can be made out of sinking grade good without smelling nice, and yet, results in a lab would show it is high quality, due to its chemical constituents. hmmmm
 
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Ouddict

Ouddict Co-Founder & Tech Support
Check this out:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3292139/
"Classification of Agarwood Oil Using an Electric Nose"

Maybe this study will be a good step in figuring out what makes up a darn good oil? I think with enough results, correlations can be made between the results of higher quality oils. But then again, does high quality means it smells objectively good? hmm, for example, an oil can be made out of sinking grade good without smelling nice, and yet, results in a lab would show it is high quality, due to its chemical constituents. hmmmm


Good article. by the way, we are launching new areas of the website and establishing a repository of articles and papers on Oud, so please look out for it in the next couples of weeks and upload it, thanks!
 

dave999

Oud Fan
Check this out:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3292139/
"Classification of Agarwood Oil Using an Electric Nose"

Maybe this study will be a good step in figuring out what makes up a darn good oil? I think with enough results, correlations can be made between the results of higher quality oils. But then again, does high quality means it smells objectively good? hmm, for example, an oil can be made out of sinking grade good without smelling nice, and yet, results in a lab would show it is high quality, due to its chemical constituents. hmmmm

Interesting article. Thanks @Alkhadra. I'd like to have a better feel for how the measurements and process variables map to scent experience. PC1 might map to scent intensity, as the three samples line up in the same order they do in the smellprint intensity plot. I also wonder how a synthetic would show up on this system as they tend to spike certain chemicals.
 

firdaous

Oud Kinamic
Assalaamu'alaikum

I put GC MS testing result on my blog for what so called as Cambodi in which popular in Gulf Countries especially KSA

http://agarwoodindonesia.com/cambodi-a-quick-answer-to-forgery/

Thanks for this excellent post and your professional contribution Muhammad ! Really interesting that you are coming with facts and objective proof not only personal appreciation...
GC MS testing is the way to go especially with the costly ones IMO!
Transparency is the most important thing we need as Oud consumers IMO and lab results could be very useful for artisans and sellers to avoid any surprise for peanuts in term of $$$...
 
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MzM

Oud King
We definitely need more transparency with oud oils as consumers, if there are certain tests by which we can extrapolate the ingredients that might be mixed in an oil that is otherwise being claimed as pure then that is a good tool to use. I think names of oils should be shared so we may as a consumer be aware. My 2 cents.
 
Talking like all Saudi use synthetic are not something fair I can tell you go to Jakarta and see what car oil what they are saling there and that's Indonesian taste, well oud marketing are big and you will find every garbage oil in everywhere but you will find special oils also there like Jakarta or saudia most of great factory's & distillers who make clean oils sale them to middle east market so you can't said they are enjoying alcohol oil , the Chinese and Taiwanese now hunting most of special old stocks wood from Saudi Arabia and gulf and had contact before from Chinese to search for them for old stocks wood, this oils who are sale it as mixed are for who can't affordable the oud oils price and looking for something cheaper you will find it everywhere even in huge factory's like ajmal and asaq and everywhere even with famous European brands like Xerjoff and many!
 

Ouddict

Ouddict Co-Founder & Tech Support
By the way, I met someone whose nose I trust over the weekend and he said KZ85 is a genuine and clean Oud, so I'm not insinuating anything by wanting to know why the results have not been released.
 
Who has the KZ85 results and why the secrecy? I honestly don't understand...

I hope I'm not walking into a minefield here as I'm asking sincerely.


If you want it in private I will be happy to send it for you only but I won't post it in public because I don't want keep repeat subject brother...
 

F4R1d0uX

Resident Artisan
I remember having seen @Kyarazen explanation on that topic : to my memory it was stocked not in an 100% proper conditions (like mostly every oils in that period) and it has may affected poorely purity of the oil.

It doesnt mean cheating or too much adulteration.

If I get an oil aged from 30 yo and if it's like 97% pure still good performance and non harmful + `at a super price, I will not dare complain ...

http://www.ouddict.com/threads/no-response-from-gaharu-despite-my-request.202/#post-5777
 
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firdaous

Oud Kinamic
I have noticed this paragraph also :
"a few months ago, i passed 20 samples of oud from a certain vendor, to a friend that was using gcms for drug discovery, for him to profile everything as and when he had free time. i would say it could become very interesting."
Maybe KZ could illuminate our lack of knowledge in this matter....
 
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