Rai Munir

Musk Man
Decades before, I was familiar with Kashmiri Musk only. Later, Mr Faheem introduced me Siberian Musk whose scent profile was different from Kashmiri Musk. Then I acquired Tibetan, Mongolian, Anuha and Nepalese. Siberian and Mongolian share scent profile to certain extent, but differences are there too. The rest have their own individual identity with their specific scent features. This is what I gathered from raw grains.

The question is about musk scent profile in maceration oils and attars.

Do the maceration oils or atrars of two different Musk grains (prepared in separate jars) smell or can smell the same or similar?
(Siberian Musk Maceration Scent=Tibetan Musk Maceration Scent)

Stay healthy!
 

RisingPhoenix

Resident Artisan
Decades before, I was familiar with Kashmiri Musk only. Later, Mr Faheem introduced me Siberian Musk whose scent profile was different from Kashmiri Musk. Then I acquired Tibetan, Mongolian, Anuha and Nepalese. Siberian and Mongolian share scent profile to certain extent, but differences are there too. The rest have their own individual identity with their specific scent features. This is what I gathered from raw grains.

The question is about musk scent profile in maceration oils and attars.

Do the maceration oils or atrars of two different Musk grains (prepared in separate jars) smell or can smell the same or similar?
(Siberian Musk Maceration Scent=Tibetan Musk Maceration Scent)

Stay healthy!

Will likely depend on concentration. At low % by weight - will likely smell similar. High % and the scent of the raw grains comes through more
 

F4R1d0uX

Resident Artisan
Decades before, I was familiar with Kashmiri Musk only. Later, Mr Faheem introduced me Siberian Musk whose scent profile was different from Kashmiri Musk. Then I acquired Tibetan, Mongolian, Anuha and Nepalese. Siberian and Mongolian share scent profile to certain extent, but differences are there too. The rest have their own individual identity with their specific scent features. This is what I gathered from raw grains.

The question is about musk scent profile in maceration oils and attars.

Do the maceration oils or atrars of two different Musk grains (prepared in separate jars) smell or can smell the same or similar?
(Siberian Musk Maceration Scent=Tibetan Musk Maceration Scent)

Stay healthy!

Thanks for heading brother @Rai Munir !

I made some macerations from Siberian musk I grabbed because I got garantee that the deer was hunted to be eaten.

I will venture to other areas when I will be able to have same garantee.

So for the moment, my experience is very limited ...

I rather advise you to see with other members ...

If I can give a small advice : tincture will give you a fair evidence.

Try to tincture very small amounts of each info perfumers alcohol and you will be able to experiment your own question in a short period of time inshah Allah.
 

Grega

True Ouddict
I have very little experience with raw musk grains. Siberian and Tibetan only. But their macerations smell very different. And it is not only because the sandalwoods are different as with both you can clearly discern the difference between the musks. The Tibetan retains much more of the raw aroma in sandalwood plus it seems to be much more potent as I used only a fifth of the amount used in the siberian musk maceration and the maceration is already resembling the raw musk scent even after aging it only for two months. The tibetan is much more spicy and fiery while the siberian seems quite suited for rose and sandalwood combos. The tibetan is gorgeous solo, either in mysore, sandalwood or malaysian oud. I sometimes take a few grains (literally around five "dots") and smear them on my wrists along with hindi oud. Also gorgeous. The raw grains are also wonderful. I smell them regularly from the vial.

The similarities between different types of musks are there though. Especially in the dry down when you smell more the effect that musk has on the oil than raw musk itself.
 

Rai Munir

Musk Man
Will likely depend on concentration. At low % by weight - will likely smell similar. High % and the scent of the raw grains comes through more
Please elaborate more.

I mean, suppose two maceration oils are prepared with the same ratios of musk and grains.

1 g Siberin and 3 g Sandal: 1 year old
1 g Tibetan and 3 g Sandal: 1 year old
1 g Mongolian and 3 g Sandal: 1 year old

Will their aroma smell similar?

Thanks, JK
 

Ulugbek Abdumominov

Central Asian Expert and Trader
I didn't have Mongolian,Siberian, Tibetan and Kashmiri musk.But my search results and feedback shows that.Siberian and Mongolian similar or close to each other.Also Kashmiri with Tibetan is must be similar.
I mean the musk Siberian regions which is close to Mongolia.
 

RisingPhoenix

Resident Artisan
Please elaborate more.

I mean, suppose two maceration oils are prepared with the same ratios of musk and grains.

1 g Siberin and 3 g Sandal: 1 year old
1 g Tibetan and 3 g Sandal: 1 year old
1 g Mongolian and 3 g Sandal: 1 year old

Will their aroma smell similar?

Thanks, JK

I generally make mine by weight. 35% by weight on the low end - others @50% by weight.

I make mine with vintage batches - dating back to the early 1900’s up through the 90’s. Generally takes me 5 vintage dud batches before I find a suitable one to make my oils with.

Then age mine for 5 years before they are ready.

The price is high - but can’t duplicate the quality.
 

Rai Munir

Musk Man
but can’t duplicate the quality.
I got the point. Nothing can duplicate, and I think cannot be replicated as well. It means scent of two different musk maceration can't smell similar as musk grains of each species or region smell different. Respected Ulugbek has rightly remarked, in my opinion, that Siberian grains and Mongolian grains smell drastically similar; so, their maceration oils prepared even separately CAN smell similar too.
 
Hi Rai,

Musk macerations can certainly smell similar, and even more so in blends. But identical, not likely. Some regions can share more similarities than others.

But straight from my maceration vials, each type smells distinctly different.
 

Bigboy

True Ouddict
While few can argue the differences between the sleek smooth spicy ( almost pencil shavings aroma ) of Mongolian in a quality mysore as opposed to the more feral skank of Siberian....., the similarities between Rps Mongolian fried attar and Tibetan musk oil are quite profound.....in the most positive way. I wonder if this is due to technique in heating or "frying " the musk(would REALLY love to hear more about how this technique is implemented) .....or just that all musk oils derived from quality grains and immersed in quality mysore take on this similar aromatic profile as evidenced in these 2 oils after several years of aging ?
 
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Rai Munir

Musk Man
Hi Rai,

Musk macerations can certainly smell similar, and even more so in blends. But identical, not likely. Some regions can share more similarities than others.

But straight from my maceration vials, each type smells distinctly different.
Thanks for your input. Of course, all will be exhibit musk. But, the way a wearer knows it is Tibetan Musk, and it is Siberian. There are notes to differentiate between two different musk species. The way Oud attar smells Oud, but it is obvious Hindi Oud and Borneo can be identified in there.
 

Rai Munir

Musk Man
While few can argue the differences between the sleek smooth spicy ( almost pencil shavings aroma ) of Mongolian in a quality mysore as opposed to the more feral skank of Siberian....., the similarities between Rps Mongolian fried attar and Tibetan musk oil are quite profound.....in the most positive way. I wonder if this is due to technique in heating or "frying " the musk(would REALLY live to hear more about how this technique is implemented) .....or just that all musk oils derived from quality grains and immersed in quality mysore take on this similar aromatic profile as evidenced in these 2 oils after several years of aging ?
Well, one is fried Mongolian Musk attar and one is Tibetan Musk maceration oil.

Are there some ingredients other than Musk and Sandal in the attar?
Didn't you smell and sense any difference in both the oils?
 

Bigboy

True Ouddict
Well, one is fried Mongolian Musk attar and one is Tibetan Musk maceration oil.

Are there some ingredients other than Musk and Sandal in the attar?
Didn't you smell and sense any difference in both the oils?

While of course there is SOME slight difference if i REALLY FOCUS....but I tell you respected Rai that it is NOT like oud in how different they are at all.

Maybe if your talking about same wood from same region from same tree cooked in same still by same artist.

I did not smell any really discernible difference OTHER than PERHAPS that the Mongolian fried musk has had its edges completely sanded down by father times sandpaper . That's really pretty much it.

As to any other ingredients, it IS an attar so that's entirely possible, however JK is VERY forthcoming about his oils and has always been upfront and open about how he crafts his art. Even here he speaks of the % used. So hats off for transparency to JK.

As far as anything to enhance the aroma I feel like I would have remembered him saying if there are were anything else in the oil to enhance it.
 

RisingPhoenix

Resident Artisan
While of course there is SOME slight difference if i REALLY FOCUS....but I tell you respected Rai that it is NOT like oud in how different they are at all.

Maybe if your talking about same wood from same region from same tree cooked in same still by same artist.

I did not smell any really discernible difference OTHER than PERHAPS that the Mongolian fried musk has had its edges completely sanded down by father times sandpaper . That's really pretty much it.

As to any other ingredients, it IS an attar so that's entirely possible, however JK is VERY forthcoming about his oils and has always been upfront and open about how he crafts his art. Even here he speaks of the % used. So hats off for transparency to JK.

As far as anything to enhance the aroma I feel like I would have remembered him saying if there are were anything else in the oil to enhance it.

Thanks for the vote of confidence ;)

Solely Musk and Sandalwood - nothing else added :)

The Mongolian Fried was made with 1940’s Mysore and with a traditional “oil fried” Mongolian pod and was made @50% by weight.

My Tibetans I generally make @35% by weight.

I age them all a minimum of 5 years before they are ready.

Historically - there are 2 general ways of preserving pods, given that they are flesh.

Drying (which is how most have likely seen them)

Smoked - which we often don’t see as it imparts wood smoke and some argue takes away from the animalic / musk scent - but then again some like the woodsmoke as it adds Umami and depth.

There’s a 3rd rarely seen method :

Oil-Fried : generally only seen in Mongolia, rarely seen with Outsiders (non-Mongols) and even more rarely outside of China, and hardly ever seen any longer these days. The pods are flash fried in an “oil that’s never changed, just added to”. Exactly what that oil is, no clue. My best guess is in Horse Oil. The old stories are that the oil itself is more potent than a pod as a result of charging over and over with flash frying the pods. But it’s an old preservation method, and is generally considered a superior method of preservation and does not take away from its potency. Historically, as trade was by land and sea and often loaded in crates for months or years at a time - these pods never went bad or lost potency and were favored for that reason.

In my experience - and the way that I make them - can definitely smell a regional difference when I make them.

Hope that helps
:)
 

Bigboy

True Ouddict
Thanks for the vote of confidence ;)

Solely Musk and Sandalwood - nothing else added :)

The Mongolian Fried was made with 1940’s Mysore and with a traditional “oil fried” Mongolian pod and was made @50% by weight.

My Tibetans I generally make @35% by weight.

I age them all a minimum of 5 years before they are ready.

Historically - there are 2 general ways of preserving pods, given that they are flesh.

Drying (which is how most have likely seen them)

Smoked - which we often don’t see as it imparts wood smoke and some argue takes away from the animalic / musk scent - but then again some like the woodsmoke as it adds Umami and depth.

There’s a 3rd rarely seen method :

Oil-Fried : generally only seen in Mongolia, rarely seen with Outsiders (non-Mongols) and even more rarely outside of China, and hardly ever seen any longer these days. The pods are flash fried in an “oil that’s never changed, just added to”. Exactly what that oil is, no clue. My best guess is in Horse Oil. The old stories are that the oil itself is more potent than a pod as a result of charging over and over with flash frying the pods. But it’s an old preservation method, and is generally considered a superior method of preservation and does not take away from its potency. Historically, as trade was by land and sea and often loaded in crates for months or years at a time - these pods never went bad or lost potency and were favored for that reason.

In my experience - and the way that I make them - can definitely smell a regional difference when I make them.

Hope that helps
:)

2 fried pods up!
Pretty cool info. Thanks. Basically the frying is how the pods are preserved rather then a method by which the infusion is created?

Just about finding thquality grains and right oil to match and a whole lot of time?

So betweem your famed fried Mongolian attar and your 5 year old Tibetan oil you dont detect immense similarities in end product profile?
 
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