Oils & Shelf Life

Discussion in 'General' started by Rai Munir, May 28, 2019.

  1. Rai Munir

    Rai Munir Musk Man

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    Aging and worth of oils proceed together. Both quality and price increase with the passage of time. Fresh oil is generally considered still carrying sharp edges and an unsettled aroma. I myself am of the same view. After spending some years with the oils, I have realized 'aging' may cause some harm to certain oils too. Of course, the quality of bottles, applicators, and the place where the oil is stored are important. Even then, some oils get damaged. I feel there must be 'shelf life' of oils.

    I request all the members to share their views:

    What is the shelf life of the following oils:

    1. Rose
    2. Jasmine
    3. Sandal
    4. Oud
    5. Frankincense

    Thanks
     
  2. MzM

    MzM Oud King

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    Excellent question, I was actually wondering about this too. I would reckon the shortest shelf life among these would be of Rose and Jasmine and then perhaps frankincense.
     
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  3. Rai Munir

    Rai Munir Musk Man

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    Well, what some patent distillers in India say that is amazing for me. A few days ago, one shared the information about the shelf life of different oils. That person said Jasmine oil (not absolute) stays fresh and gorgeous for two months or so. Aging destroys it. This is why quality Jasmine oil/ Ruh Motia is comparatively less on the market. I am not talking about Jasmine absolute.
     
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  4. Rai Munir

    Rai Munir Musk Man

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    The shelf life of Rose oil is one to two years. Jasmine and Rose oils shelf life I mentioned is according to one of the famous Indian vendors. That vendor never sells both the oils without letting the buyer know about the age of the oils he offers, and always informs about the shelf life. I think here this aspect of oils has not been thought and discussed neither by the members nor by the distiller vendors and nor by the vendors.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
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  5. Martin

    Martin Oud Novice

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    This is a reminder to enjoy my rose ottos more liberally and not try to conserve them like an oud!


     
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  6. Fahad

    Fahad Oud Fan

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    I'm not quite convinced about the short shelf lives of rose and jasmine empirically speaking..I have Ruh motia and chameli from white lotus from 2008. Though not as fresh smelling as before the scents are intact with no off notes. Also have their uttar pradesh rose otto and frankincense acquired from around the same time. The rose smells pretty much the same and the frankincense has gotten better, smells like fresh tears. Also have a turkish otto from 99' and Bulgarian from Alteya 07' from .. Both intact.. I think it depends on storage conditions.
     
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  7. Mr.P

    Mr.P Oud Fan

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    Agreed, Fahad. I was reading those statements and trying to reconcile them with my own. Rose oil can lose some sparkle if exposed to air, I feel like I see a change there in some rose oils. Others seem very stable over time. The jasmine oils in my collection have not changed much, even over a period of 5-10 years. These include ruhs, absolutes, and co2 oils (though I have yet to meet a “ruh” or co2 that I was 100% confident was authentic). They are all very stable.
     
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  8. Mr.P

    Mr.P Oud Fan

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    Do you trust those ruhs from white lotus? They do not smell authentic to me, I have never trusted his jasmine ruhs or co2 oils as they smell too similar and linear and the ruh motia lasts WAY too long to be actual jasmine distillate. That sucker clings like a cheap perfume in my experience. I sampled multiple batches - all were questionable to me.
     
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  9. Sproaty

    Sproaty Sproudy Staff Member

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    Tell you what, if my attars or ouds start to go off then I will be well pissed off
     
  10. Ouddict

    Ouddict Forum Co-Founder & Owner

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    I have two roses from 2008 and 2012. The first from 2008 is the Sultan's Rose from Oriscent. It smells pretty much the same as it did when I bought it back in 2008 and has never really been opened or used. The second one is a Taif Rose from ASAQ that was the winner of the some annual award for quality in 2012. Again, it hasn't been used and is still the same as when I bought it. I have probably opened the bottles 8-9 times to sniff the oils since purchase so have a good idea of any progression/regression - there is none. I also have a lot of floral oil samples that again have not degraded since 2012.

    Ouds that I have purchased have all either stayed the same or improved. The Oud Royale from 1982 being a case in point - smells the same as when I bought it in 2008.

    Having said that if any essential oils is regularly exposed to air through frequent use and/or kept in a bottle exposed to light or one that has a significant amount of air - around more than 50% in my experience - then the oils do start to oxidise. It is under these conditions that an essential oil like rose or jasmine may degrade noticeably. I can only speak for these types of floral oils that are 12 years or so old as I don't have experience with ones older than this.
     
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  11. Ouddict

    Ouddict Forum Co-Founder & Owner

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    I wouldn't worry my friend. There are too many members on here posing as experts but in reality know very little and I'm getting quite tired of it. Rest assured as long as you look after your Oud oils, they will last a lifetime.
     
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  12. Ouddict

    Ouddict Forum Co-Founder & Owner

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    To clarify, I am referring to Oud oils distilled traditionally. I would say that fractionated Oud oils that have been isolated from their other original constituents may have a shelf-life more in line with essential oils like rose and jasmine. It for the same reason that they do not require ageing as traditionally distilled Oud oils might.
     
  13. Habz786

    Habz786 Resident Artisan & Forum Co-Founder

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    I would add that taif rose from ASAQ is hands down the best rose i have smelt amazing stuff....
     
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  14. Ouddict

    Ouddict Forum Co-Founder & Owner

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    You will be fine with those Rose Ottos Martin.. just make sure they are stored correctly.
     
  15. RisingPhoenix

    RisingPhoenix Resident Artisan

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    A few thoughts...

    Floral Absolutes can potentially degrade over time.

    Floral EO’s / Ruhs / Ottos generally hold or improve with age.

    Keep in mind that a “degraded oil” usually loses some top notes - but may deepen in the heart and base

    Woods, roots, and resins generally improve with age.

    I have some 140 year old lemon oil. No joke - 140 years old. Smells like lemon jam. No longer clean and sparkly. Now it is thick like crazy thaqueel Oud.

    Some might call it degraded or oxidized. But it’s totally unique and smells friggen awesome.

    My 2011 Mongolian Fried Musk Attar I made with a batch of 1940’s Mysore.

    I have a small bottle of 1930.

    And another small amount of 1860’s Mysore.

    Guess what - they all smell incredible.

    The 1860’s is likely oxidized as it was in a big bottle. It’s “degraded” and formed some notes reminiscent of vanilla. Similar to how old books start to smell vanillic. Heck - they used to synthesize vanillin from wood pulp. So makes total sense.

    But - they haven’t gone bad. They smell insanely good.

    Bushido uses a batch of Allspice EO from 1906. Still smells spicy - but more rounded and coumerinic.

    Many of my Attars make use of old oils, and many of the Attar Bases (which I compound and then later add to Sandal) have been aging since 2011 and 2012, and I’m constantly making more batches to age for future use.

    Aging may round off some top notes. It’ll deepen oils in the Heart and Base. But plenty of things don’t shift - or maybe a better way of saying is that they Mature - much in the same way that liquors, wines, and whiskeys do.

    Consider also that age doesn’t always ruin notes. Sometimes it creates them. Can’t fake aged Scotch. Only age produces those tastes.

    Many aged teas are considered medicine. They don’t produce the flavors or properties until they are decades old. Old teas found in attics and found in boxes in storehouses often yield insane treasures that sell for nutso prices.

    Ironically - some of the newer style of Oud oils that are sold young and sparkly...give them a few years and although they’ll still be nice - notice that they may start smelling like other aged Ouds that for some reason are now getting shat on. That sparkle is due to youth. They’ll deepen with age.

    People value age. With age comes Wisdom. Older oils may occasionally lose some of their sparkly youth - but often vast sums of money are spent on properly aged cheeses, wines, scotch / whiskey, coffee, tea - and even essential oils.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
  16. Mr.P

    Mr.P Oud Fan

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    Oxidized citrus oils are carcinogens. Be careful with that lemon oil and don’t use it in anything meant to go on skin! I read this in tisserand’s book on EO safety.
     
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  17. amanitamusc

    amanitamusc Just Arrived

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    I have heard Ensar say that some ouds will age well and some will not get better with age.
    What is the magical formula for ouds that age well?
     
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  18. Rai Munir

    Rai Munir Musk Man

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    Now certain reliable evidence suggests that Rose oil never degenerates. Of course, if respected Fahad has Rose oils that are pretty aged, and are still gorgeous, shelf life is pretty long then. But the way vintage Oud is precious and rare, vintage Rose oil is not.

    Jasmine oil is still a question. I am sure majority of respected members have reliable contacts in India with distiller vendors, one can have their opinion about shelf life of Ruh Jasmine.

    Respected Mr. P and respected JK, loved reading your expert opinion.

    Dear JK, what about Oud and Sandalwood?
    Have the oils become prettier the way Oud oils turn to be?

    I don't have aged Rose and Jasmine oils, nor do I preserve oils, so, I requested the respected members to share their first hand experiences.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
  19. Rai Munir

    Rai Munir Musk Man

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    Freeze! Don't be lavish with your Rose oils, Sir.:p

    Findings are still being shared.
     
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  20. Rai Munir

    Rai Munir Musk Man

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    Two months ago, I macerated Persian Saffron and black Ambergris in Neroli. I will open it after these summers.

    What's your opinion whether it would get weird or there would be something pleasant?
     

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