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Science Or Art?

Abu Amir

True Ouddict
Is there any art i destilling oils? Answer nooooo
There are only science.
Is there any art one blending oils?
Yes
So what do u think people?
 

Alion22

Oud Fan
I think art is related in everything that involves personal taste, some prefer it soaked, some not, it needs a lot of knowledge to distill but a little art is still needed
 

sabahan

Oud Beginner
This is a perfect example of a logical fallacy (false dilemma or false dichotomy) where the statement or question incorrectly assumes the answer is an either/or.

I personally think it both art and science, although I would lean much more heavily to it being an art.

That said, may be worth taking a step back. What exactly is the definition of science and art in this question?
 

Abu Amir

True Ouddict
This is a perfect example of a logical fallacy (false dilemma or false dichotomy) where the statement or question incorrectly assumes the answer is an either/or.

I personally think it both art and science, although I would lean much more heavily to it being an art.

That said, may be worth taking a step back. What exactly is the definition of science and art in this question?
U are not painting somthing u are taking out oil so where are the art in this? Its pure sience. There are no art or magic its only crap talk they make becuse most people dont understand science so its easyer to say art. Prove me wrong please
 

Alion22

Oud Fan
I will define science as pure logic, like mathematics, 1 + 1 = 2, there is no other answer to that, for distillation i guess it would be extracting the most amount of undenatured molecule from the raw material.
But we are humans that have complex psychology so pure logic cannot apply to us as is, for example science says, fruits are good for me but if i'm not in the mood for a fruit maybe i wouldn't want to eat one, i would prefer a hamburger and maybe just maybe it would be bad for me to constantly repress my desire for a hamburger.
Same think for oils, logic would say that funk or barnyard smells are a bad think but lots of people enjoy that.
And the art is to appeal to some people tastes even if it's against logic.
 

DubOudh

Aster Oudh
Is there any art i destilling oils? Answer nooooo
There are only science.
Is there any art one blending oils?
Yes
So what do u think people?
I see science as a creative process in the first place. To understand science you need to think. The thoughts have to evolve to progress the science. Other wise how else would we now be using ships made of Steele instead of wood...which was used for thousands of years in ship building?
It came about because people started to think creatively at first. They applied this new thought to understand the world around them better.

Creative thought powers science...and people who use their minds creatively ARE ARTISTS in their time. The rest of humanity has no time for them until later...I MEAN who expects ships made of iron to float....next people will be talking about flying through the air...
Never under estimate the pure art of creative thought.
We would not be communicating like this other wise brother.
Science would not exist without it.
Life is art.... alhamdulallah...
 

Abu Amir

True Ouddict
I will define science as pure logic, like mathematics, 1 + 1 = 2, there is no other answer to that, for distillation i guess it would be extracting the most amount of undenatured molecule from the raw material.
But we are humans that have complex psychology so pure logic cannot apply to us as is, for example science says, fruits are good for me but if i'm not in the mood for a fruit maybe i wouldn't want to eat one, i would prefer a hamburger and maybe just maybe it would be bad for me to constantly repress my desire for a hamburger.
Same think for oils, logic would say that funk or barnyard smells are a bad think but lots of people enjoy that.
And the art is to appeal to some people tastes even if it's against logic.
How people like diffrent smell is another thing, i mean its no any art on producing destilling only sciens
 

Alkhadra

"Master Kafeel" Resident Artisan
Agarwood distillation is both a scientific and artistic endeavor regardless of what anyone wishes to believe. Understanding the wood you're using and how to derive a certain scent profile from that wood is an artistic idea that is executed with a scientific method. To consider it mere science is the equivalent of considering a painters brush stroke as a scientific tool. Yet the painter doesn't know the exact equations to which brush to use for which stroke until after gaining an arsenal of experience. In art, as in science, results are brought forth through trial and error.

Artists experiment with new techniques. In music, they experiment with new symphonies. In food, with new ingredients or techniques. Distilling Oud is like distilling anything else, be it hydrocarbons or wine. People distilling hydrocarbon would call their work scientific, people making wine would call it artistic. Those working with hydrocarbons apply specific equations to get the same products time and time again. You don't drink hydrocarbon so you don't have to worry about how it tastes, just how it can be used as fuel. You drink wine, you smell Oud, so you have to worry about how it tastes, how it smells, every time.

P.S. I don't drink wine :Roflmao:, just thought it was an adequate industry to use in comparison.
 

Abu Amir

True Ouddict
I want some one prove me when destilling there are art?
There are no art att all, if i put some one who is best on paint picture and told him here make me oil that dont smell burnd, he will not be abel to do it or he may do it but his artisinal talent are useless. If i say to a chemist i want oil without this substance becuse i dont like it he will do it 100%
So where are we
 

DubOudh

Aster Oudh
I want some one prove me when destilling there are art?
Perhaps Abu Amir this could be best with an attempt at an answer if I were to understand your profile/definition of art.
Because otherwise brother we shall go around and around in circles...it is a very subjective discussion.
I once had a discussion with a friend about nature who could not see the colour green. His view was...to say the least...different...
 
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I am constantly trying to perfect a cake recipe to suit my taste, I adjust the amounts of the ingredients I use each time I bake it, then I eat the entire cake within that week. Sometimes I adjust the recipe in a certain way, but eating that version all week, I find that the original direction I was pushing for didn’t turn out to be ideal for me, so I make new adjustments. It’s an ongoing thing, because I have not settled on the final recipe yet. To complicate matters, I am limited to a stove top oven, and a certain sized pan, so the recipe has to fall within that parameter.
I would say that in this case,
I believe that it is neither science nor art.
:Roflmao::Roflmao::Roflmao:

As for oud oils,
I believe that there is a science behind it, but it can be artfully applied.

As for Mukhallats,
The ingredients interact with one another, and therefore there are molecular activities involved,
so I believe that there is a science behind it,
but it can be artfully applied.

Notice that I used the word believe,
that’s because ultimately,
we believe what we choose to believe:praying:
 
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sabahan

Oud Beginner
I want some one prove me when destilling there are art?
There are no art att all, if i put some one who is best on paint picture and told him here make me oil that dont smell burnd, he will not be abel to do it or he may do it but his artisinal talent are useless. If i say to a chemist i want oil without this substance becuse i dont like it he will do it 100%
So where are we

Dear Abu Amir, you haven’t offered any solid reasoning how distilling oud oil is cannot be an art. Nor have you provided any proof how distilling oil is 100% science.
U are not painting somthing u are taking out oil so where are the art in this? Its pure sience. There are no art or magic its only crap talk they make becuse most people dont understand science so its easyer to say art. Prove me wrong please
 

Abu Amir

True Ouddict
Ok i will give u proove it is 100% sience
If u want an oil that is like oil name xxxxx
Becuse u like oil xxxxx
As sience they se wahat is xxxxx consist of and destill this oil to u exactley as xxxxx. But if u want me copy mona lisa picture i cant paint it maybe if i copy it but u will say its not the same becuse i have not painted
I hope people understand me :)
 

Abu Amir

True Ouddict
And oil xxxxx is nothing an artist created he only destill woood or mixture of wood or plants he cant controll more than temp on pot and condensor he cant put somthing else. And he have zero controll what will happen in pot more than what usually do
 

DubOudh

Aster Oudh
Ok i will give u proove it is 100% sience
If u want an oil that is like oil name xxxxx
Becuse u like oil xxxxx
As sience they se wahat is xxxxx consist of and destill this oil to u exactley as xxxxx. But if u want me copy mona lisa picture i cant paint it maybe if i copy it but u will say its not the same becuse i have not painted
I hope people understand me :)
So one is painted by the original artist and the other is created by the original tree. They are both artistic originals...
 

Mr.P

Evoloudtionary Bioudlogist
Dear Abu Amir, you haven’t offered any solid reasoning how distilling oud oil is cannot be an art. Nor have you provided any proof how distilling oil is 100% science.
Hey man relax this is just a discussion forum
 

Mr.P

Evoloudtionary Bioudlogist
I wonder if someone would like to lay out their perspective on what the differences between an artistic creation and a scientific manufacturing process. I do think the whole "Artisanal distillation" stuff is complete malarkey on ONE LEVEL And by that I mean if you control the factors that go into it the result is predictable and based on the operations of principles of physics basically. On another, I think they are trying to communicate something real about their methods. Artisanal is just a poor choice of adjectives and obviously just Oud Marketing Exaggeration Speak which we all accept. Artisanal Organic Royal Kyara Oil Defended From the Last Kyara Trees Defended by Snipers, right!?

I don't think when vendors or resellers say that their oils are artisanal that they mean that Oils are unique art that only they can create. I think if they say that they are... embellishing the truth (?) and just trying to sucker people into making an impulse buy by creating an illusion of "uniqueness" and thus extreme value.

so I call BS and I believe a skilled scientist who is trained in extraction techniques will actually do a better job distilling than someone who is just tweaking things "artistically" without Careful measurement and control of variables which are the hallmarks of scientific techniques. Those who take the artisanal approach literally will lose the ability to reproduce what they've made. I almost wonder if that's the point. If you don't track exactly how you made it then you can say it's one of a kind and will never be made again!


I think what they mean honestly however is that they are making difficult choices about materials and not doing huge runs based entirely on cost cutting measures. I believe some of our oud heroes are indeed accepting higher production costs for the sake of making something that's higher quality.

We should probably just say that, instead of pretending it's a secret art, but I know what they mean I don't blame them for trying to create a little mystique to make some sales even if it is a complete turn off And all else being equal "artisanal nonsense marketing" will always steer me to a different vendor.

I suggest instead of trying to pretend there is some top-secret art form that nobody can know except you, you just say "we would never sacrifice quality for the sake of higher productions and greater profits" or something like that. Just cut the bullshit and be honest and say what you actually DO and stop trying to make it into a fairytale. We will love you and your products even more!


No I cannot 100% prove anything that I'm saying here to whomever the fellow was who demands 100% proof
 
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