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The oud scene

Discussion in 'Oud Market Trends' started by Habz786, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. Habz786

    Habz786 Resident Artisan & Forum Co-Founder

    I was just thinking to myself ive been into Oud for around 5 years so im pretty new to all this and still learning. Its always nice to hear storys of the "golden days" How do people who have been into Oud for a long time or even a short time feel the oud scene has evolved, improved, changed just thoughts on the scene in generel how do Ouddicts feel? For myself its evident that the oils of the past cannot be matched in terms of quality,scent profile & price however there can be exceptions from time to time. Something which is rare and in decline will only command higher prices over time, however there are more affordable options still available which smell great. The old tree's are far and few fetched and slowley Oud is running out are Ouddicts stacking up for the great Oud breakdown? How far do we think we are until we realise how precious what we have in our vials actually are? It would be nice to an insight into peoples views of the Oud scene in generel from their knowledge and experience :)
     
    Chinwezon and Royalbengalouds like this.
  2. ParadiseofOils

    ParadiseofOils True Ouddict

    I don't think we are all that far away from realising what your said about how precious what we have in our vials and bottles actually are. Give it 2/3 years Around 2020 if that, before we realise how precious those bottles/vials are and have become.

    Those that are rare will obviously command higher prices like you said as well. I also agree with you Habz that the quality and scent profile cant be matched from years ago. Give it another 10 years and we will be saying that about the oils that are around just now.
     
    Royalbengalouds, jensz and Habz786 like this.
  3. Ouddict

    Ouddict Forum Co-Founder & Tech Support

    Agreed. Some regions have more than others but wild Oud is declining fast. Someone over at Gaharu mistook my words regarding the 'democratisation' to mean that there is plenty of cheap high quality Oud around. That simply isn't true.

    However, having said that, there are a lot of half-truths around and some are used to sell Oud to unsuspecting consumers. Vendors need to be transparent and honest about their wares and not scare people into buying this oil using extinction stories. Yes it's running out, but there is still good Oud around for now. How much longer is anyone's guess, but I wouldn't say more than 10 years if that. Some regions are already finished.
     
  4. F4R1d0uX

    F4R1d0uX Resident Artisan

    Brother I agree 1000% with you on some people telling : It's over ! No more wood ! Thank God I have a stock from Vietnam war and so on.

    Sure many countries are game over except for some few people. Every one involved in the buisness knows that.
    In other countries wild wood is Reserved for big local groups and people involved knows as well.

    But there are places where oud still exist ...

    The viability of wild oud depend on our behaviour.

    We have bad habits seeking fashionable rarity like spoiled Princesses.

    Yesterday Sri Lanka today China tomorrow Laos.

    Things going too fast and we need to have reasonable behaviour.

    Farmers technics also developed classic consumers like us swype farmed hindi since a while thinking they have wild (and I'm pointing anybody).

    Soon maybe we will accept swyping good farmed oil in our everyday use and reserve wild for great occasions.

    Or we must assume clearly our behavior.

    I apologize if I was tough it's just my feeling ...
     
  5. F4R1d0uX

    F4R1d0uX Resident Artisan

    And by the way I want to show publicly my profound respect for a seller whom I won't mention by name.

    He assumes honestly distilling farmed oud and do his best to make it looks like wild.

    I never bought a single drop from this seller I just add free samples from friends.
    I have never been his client and I have 0 interrest in his business but justice need to be given to people who does things right.
     
  6. Mr.P

    Mr.P Evoloudtionary Bioudlogist

    One change - in the US in the late 90's the idea of "pure oud oil" was almost an oxymoron. I know it was different overseas, but in the US it seemed like pure oud was kind of like the holy grail - a few dedicated folks looking for it but not really expecting to find it. One great development is the presence of web-based retail vendors who seem truly committed to selling the authentic material. For me at least, the ability to look through my collection with some confidence that many if not all oud oils are pure... this is a big deal.
     
  7. ParadiseofOils

    ParadiseofOils True Ouddict

    Absolutely true. Same goes for here in the United Kingdom Mr.P

    It brings peace of mind that what you have is 100% pure and you can cherish that. More and more people are looking to buy Oud oil, and as long as they visit legit online vendors they are safe from buying unpure or adulterated oils. Its only when people who are new to oud oil may end up being cheated, people coming into the oud world, see the prices and think okay I might get it cheaper elsewhere that's far too expensive. They may think they have pure oud oil at a ridiculously low price but many time "newbies" usually get a reality check when they experience true Oud Oil from a select few vendors. I'm not saying you cant get cheap oud oil that is 100% pure, sure it will be lower grade, less rich and less deep. But to access lower priced lower grade oils "newbies" usually don't have the connections/links to buy from them.
     
  8. jensz

    jensz Administrator Staff Member

    Very interesting topic. This is a matter I wish I had first hand knowledge about. But even if I had the time/money necessary to get that knowledge by traveling to agarwood areas, I wouldn't last a day or two on an agarwood expedition to the jungles. Snakes, other dangerous animals, irritating bugs, humidity, mud, rain, thieves, intruding on tribes . . . nope, I'd be at the bottom of the food chain. The best I (and most of us) can do is rely on other people's accounts. There seems to be a consensus that wild wood is running out; the dispute seems to be the timeframe: is it a handful of years or 10 years? But either way, the horizon is limited. I just hope that cultivated stuff can someday routinely match the wild, because it seems inevitable that at some point, only cultivated will be affordable. Certainly there are a good number of very fine cultivated oils.
     
  9. jalil

    jalil Oud bully

    With internet, specialy facebook, its easy to have connection direct to the distiller and get pure oil, for afordable price.

    Price of wild oud go up like everything rare in the world.

    Price of organic oud is still afordable and some vendors put all their effort to match wild scent.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  10. ParadiseofOils

    ParadiseofOils True Ouddict

    Absolutely Jensz there are many fine cultivated oils.

    Wild oil will always have the exquisite factor even when it does eventually run out but will be expensive as you said.

    Distillation will eventually be altered, however that may be, to bring out the best in cultivated oils. Just as the techniques used by A Grade Distillers have been altered as time has gone on to bring us the best in wild oil. As less and less wild oils are produced and more and more cultivated oils are produced ( which will happen more and more ) I see cultivated oils will one day have the same depth etc as wild oils.
     
  11. jensz

    jensz Administrator Staff Member

    This makes lots of sense. Necessity is the mother of invention, as they say. :)
     
  12. ParadiseofOils

    ParadiseofOils True Ouddict


    Absolutely, time will go on and distillers will have to adapt to the changes. Cultivated oill distillation techniques will develop as years go on.

    Now is a good time to get ahead of the game for some distillers to start investing in creating more and more cultivated oils and learning from "mistakes" in distillation to bring the best oils for the public for the future. I purposely put mistakes in inverted comma's I don't mean actual mistakes that the oils created wont be good but to start trial and error in getting the best oils for the future in the distillation process. Because that day will come one day when wild trees will be scarce and it will all be cultivated trees that are used. And when that day comes, its better to be ahead of the game that just starting off distilling in cultivated oils.
     
  13. F4R1d0uX

    F4R1d0uX Resident Artisan

    Diffference between wild and farmed is how the tree become sick or wounded and how much time it has resinated.

    I know personaly one distiller and who has developed 5 years super resination technic wich can fool any of us here.

    He is already close to wild quality...
     
  14. Habz786

    Habz786 Resident Artisan & Forum Co-Founder

    There are very few cultivated oils i have smelt that i can say are close in depth & richness to wild oils. These cultivated oils again were distilled from older plantation trees which no longer exist. The passion for Oud seems to be on the decline with inoculation and early harvesting on the rise due to making money. I cant see any grand scale plantation efforts to produce a high quality oil as it would not financially benefit a farmer to wait x ammount of years before cooking a oil. I dont think plantation will "replace" wild i cant see this happening even though i pray it does. It will be a case of theres no other choice but buy lower quality oil. Do you guys think we the consumer are to blame for the increased decline? I have even contemplated stopping buying Oud as there is a sense of guilt, but ive been trying that for 6 months and not got very far. I do appreciate the work vendors have done to bring about pure artisinal oud and i hope it continues but for how long.......
     
  15. Mr.P

    Mr.P Evoloudtionary Bioudlogist

    One other change - the shift in price for pure oud. Leaving the cultivated / wild issue aside for a moment, it is now possible to get pure oud at pretty reasonable prices. I actually think the high quality cultivated stuff is quite nice, and knowing that it is authentic and from a source which is, in theory at least, potentially sustainable adds a lot of value to me because I can afford to enjoy the oil. I have some very precious oils that are probably from wild wood but I feel hesitant to use them because I know they will be gone soon. So the usability of cultivated ouds makes them more precious to me, in a weird way...
     
  16. F4R1d0uX

    F4R1d0uX Resident Artisan

    Not that weird or I'm weird too !
    This is what I call reasonable behaviour.
    Happy to see people consciencious poeple here !
     
  17. firdaous

    firdaous Oud Kinamic

    The Oud scene seems to be quite disturbing isn't it?
    What I know from now is that the major part of the Oud consumers are not willing to pay a huge amount of $ on a 3g/ml bottle without any evidence regarding the purity and a clear oil statement (wild/Organic)...
     
  18. Ouddict

    Ouddict Forum Co-Founder & Tech Support


    For sure. Who in their right minds would part with so much money like that? But I have to say that there is no verification process or certification body that can provide reassurance of the veracity of vendor claims. We simply trust the individuals who run these companies.

    Terms like 'organic' are used to describe Oud wood and oil, without acknowledging that there are stringent regulatory requirements for example in the USA; UK and Europe, in order to be able to label something 'organic'.

    Also with plantation/cultivated/organic sourced oil, CITES certification should also be in place. Having said all that, I do believe that most of the well known vendors are honest about the purity of their Oud - certainly those we have allowed to advertise on this forum either in the past or now. However, my point above is about more than simply the purity of an oil.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  19. 5MeO

    5MeO Junior Member

    I don't agree that the oud from years past "can't be matched" in quality by the oils now.. Some of the newer oils brought out by Ensar, Taha, Adam and others seem every bit on par with some of the older oils in my collection, and often I prefer them.. And these distillers are using techniques that are more creative and advanced than in years past, and doing very interesting representations of oud, styles that you probably could not find 20 years ago.. It is also not a fair comparison because the older oils will have benefited from aging and so will of course be richer and have more depth..
     
  20. Ouddict

    Ouddict Forum Co-Founder & Tech Support

    You may be right, but where does that leave the claims that the wood that was used to distill the old Ouds cannot now be used as it's too expensive?
     

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