Thickness , Costs, Colors , And Quality Of Attars

Discussion in 'Elixir Attar' started by Elixir Attar, Apr 10, 2019.

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  1. Elixir Attar

    Elixir Attar Oud Fan

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    some people inquired as to why some attars are dark vs light as well as thick vs not thick- also about why some are costly vs some which arent.

    thickness and color Dont indicate quality whatsoever

    Ill try to respond and inform people as prompt as possible.

    First of all ,if the attar is 100% natural- thickness of attar depends on several factors including the number of absolutes/resin extracts used-
    If an oud is used how thick it was etc.

    Some rose oils are buttery due to the wax content and so on.

    Labdanum for example can be very thick- adding a bit of spices to it would make it a bit thinner however it would be very thick still

    An attar like that would be very cheap cost wise- very thick and dark in color.

    Macerating some musk grains and mixing enfleurage oils in a vintage sandalwood oil would be light, thin, however very expensive

    Some people still cant comprehend how expensive it can be

    To put things into perspective think about it like grades of oud vs artisanal oud.

    Saffron absolutes can cost 80$/ 7 ml , whereas threads distillations can yield around 0.4% and cost astronomically huge amounts.
    Thats not taking into account the types of saffrons.

    Rose oils vary greatly as well, whereas lab- made PEA can cost 20$/ 10 ml and considered natural-

    Organic rose oils cost tens of folds more than that-
    Howevrr for an experienced nose its very obvious the difference.

    Therefore, thickness, color and cost vary greatly and both colors and thickness are not indicative of cost at all-
    Its actually the opposite
    If its too thick and ambery it might be the effect of labdanum.

    Last but not least, if an attar has synthetics in it - its thickness can be enhanced by adding thickenening agents or plasticizers making it thick like honey- however thats not indicative of quality
     
    odegra, RisingPhoenix, Fahad and 5 others like this.
  2. odegra

    odegra Just Arrived

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    Good post, Elixir. I fully agree with you. Don't judge a fragrance by its appearance, as we would not with a book by its cover.

    Just want to add a few lines about the costs that Elixir mentioned:

    80$/ 7 ml is a good price for saffron absolute. The distilled oil of saffron is unheard of, because as you pointed out, the yield is so low and the raw material is already very expensive (>$1500/kilo, in bulk).
    The good point is that saffron is a high impact material (and it irritates the skin in high concentrations anyway), so the average cost for using it in your attar/perfume is acceptable. We are talking about 0.1-1% in the final attar here, so maybe $1 worth of saffron for 1 tola attar. Not bad.

    However, if we want say rose, jasmine, lotus and orange flower absolute in our attar, then they each claims a similar price range ($50-100 /5ml), but to get the floral opulence we may want a few percent, depending on the material. So $10-20 for a few percent of flower absolute in our tola bottle.
    If ruh (distilled oil) of the flowers are used, double to triple the cost.

    Remember, flower absolutes cast high impacts, too. The real trouble comes when we want a base of sandalwood (which is low impact), bit of oud, touch of land furry or ocean giants... say we pay $50-100 for nearly a tola of sandalwood oil, another $50 for drops of plantation oud and stuff.
    And the consistency of this rather costly all natural blend? Like sandalwood oil, somewhat viscous, but still pretty runny. The color could range from golden to golden brown, but nowhere near a black concoction.

    Synthetics are way cheaper. But honestly, Elixir, way cheaper than you quoted. Synthetic PEA only costs £60/kg. The natural PEA are isolated from essential oils of palmarosa or other plants, they are indeed from natural origin, but those cost £500/kg, so only £5/10g.
    Not nitpicking or anything, it's the Asian part of me thinking, you know, $20/10ml PEA is a bit of scam... I'll see myself out.
     
  3. Elixir Attar

    Elixir Attar Oud Fan

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    Hello dear
    Replying about PEA
    PEA that is made by bacteria is not considered synthetic
    Its like replicating DNA using natural enzymes
    I am talking about retail and not wholesale price also
    Its sold in the US for around 20-25$/ 10 ml
    And comparing to 10ml of Taif rose oil - which would cost twenty to thirty fold more - one should appreciate the high cost.
    Add to that-
    When you say saffron is a high inpct material- its true
    But imagine distilling 100 grams of threads to get 0.4 ml of oil
    So when i distill 1 kg of Persian saffron threads-not saffron flower- for example to get 4 ml of oil it would cost tens of thousands dollars
    In some attars with synthetics the saffron - safranal- and so the difference is astronomical
    If you add 0.2 ml of saffron thread oil in 3 ml of oil in an attar-
    That is around the distillate of 50gms of threads-

    Some Taif Rose petals enfleurage also exist-
    Can you imagine the cost to that compared to PeA- quoting your price or mine-
    I am just trying to show the difference dea
    I am not being argumentative-

    Just explaining how crazy it can be - cost wise-

    When you say in Sandwood base you assume most attars have sandalwood-
    -And sandalwoods also vary greatly in price-
    In my case for example- the sandalwoods i used where containing macterations of musk/ambergris/ or saffron
    Sometimes macerated for years
    - so you can imagine the cost of an 8 year deer musk maceration of sandalwood and how different it would be from regular sandalwood.
    Point is it takes a great deal of layering and preparation to make a ghaliya attr for example as opposed to simply taking 100 ml sandalwood oil and adding drops of things inside- that would be an attar that leans on the perfume side scale of concentration type of attar
    Its lets say 20-30% materials in sandalwood making it a perfume with sandalwood base-
    Thic cannot be even compared to an attar in which its sandalwood base is a comaceration of musk and saffron and ambergris for example.
    Same goes for oud-
    A oud with musk maceration would cost twice as much as regular oud-
    Again not taking into considerarion the costs of different types of musk., etc.

    Anyway my post aims to reply to the people who say that attars are judges by color/ or thickness
    I was trying to put things into perspective
    My attars are mostly thick and very dark-

    But again it isnt indicative of anything)))
     
    Azzam likes this.
  4. Azzam

    Azzam The Alchemist

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    Hi what is PEA?
     
  5. Elixir Attar

    Elixir Attar Oud Fan

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    Phenyl Ethyl Alcohol

    Attached in the photo is a rose otto oil used and sold as “organic rose oil” and on Amazon- it is however PEA made by bacteria- smells like rose
    But to be sure its not rose just put it in the fridge and it wont freeze, an indication its PEA
     

    Attached Files:

    Azzam likes this.
  6. odegra

    odegra Just Arrived

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    Phenyl Ethyl Alcohol, an alcohol in rose oils/absolutes, smells rosy (unsurprisingly)
     
    Azzam likes this.
  7. odegra

    odegra Just Arrived

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    No problem, my friend, points well taken. Your concoction sounds really cool. Just thought you mentioned PEA 'cause you bought it at that rate, not an ideal price.

    Those low price "rose otto", on the other hand, are usually real otto/rose abs diluted with fixed oils, because PEA itself smells rosy but pale, hardly confuse anyone with the real thing.

    No problem with having a thick or thin, dark or light attar really. The nose always knows.
     
    Elixir Attar likes this.

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