Commercial perfume(r)s are out of their minds

[DubOudh]

I needed you there man… My reaction time was too slow and I didn't know what was coming. That perfume was still pissing me off at like 8 PM last night 😂

In the future I do think we'll be stepping outside before anybody's spraying anything at those events.

It still wouldn't hurt to have his picture stuck on a wall to remind you of the bad experience you had to endure for hours...😂

 

[S Zeb]

Has anyone walked through/ near an airport duty free shop lately 😉

 

[sevki_ak]

I feel this… especially in gym, where the air is stuffy anyway I get confronted with the classic Xerjoff Erba Pura and Baccarat Rouge DNA (heavily synthetic) which lets me almost puke every time. Its funny, that when I show my Attars to others they say „Thats too strong - how can you wear this?“ 😂

 

[Goodness Nose]

the way i see it, when we are exposed to isolated molecules like that, it overloads the senses and burns out our ability to smell certain things. when we smell the natural form of that isolate, its surrounded by other natural smells that our brain can pick out. without that barrier of other smells, the isolates longevity and sillage is unbeatable because its impossible not to notice the isolate. that singularity becomes subconsciously (or consciously) irritating to the point where people can develop headaches or nausea over it.

i feel like isolates have a place in perfumery, but it should be more niche than naturals. natural oils might not perform like the synthetics but they shouldn't have to. its already a highly concentrated form of nature that i guarantee your friend across the room can smell because they arent used to it like you are.

in the end, synthetics do an excellent job of selling a false idea of natural scent, and how they should perform...

 

[Rename]

the way i see it, when we are exposed to isolated molecules like that, it overloads the senses and burns out our ability to smell certain things. when we smell the natural form of that isolate, its surrounded by other natural smells that our brain can pick out. without that barrier of other smells, the isolates longevity and sillage is unbeatable because its impossible not to notice the isolate. that singularity becomes subconsciously (or consciously) irritating to the point where people can develop headaches or nausea over it.

i feel like isolates have a place in perfumery, but it should be more niche than naturals. natural oils might not perform like the synthetics but they shouldn't have to. its already a highly concentrated form of nature that i guarantee your friend across the room can smell because they arent used to it like you are.

in the end, synthetics do an excellent job of selling a false idea of natural scent, and how they should perform...

Reality is losing out to Virtual Reality amongst the masses.

Sometimes it seems like those of us firmly rooted in the Real World are a minority.

And maybe we are … especially amongst the industrialized.

Food. Clothing. Housing. Medicine. Entertainment. Sex. It’s all artificial.

 

[jbs1]

I see your point and this is separate issue, hard to imagine influencers like this have people taking their advice, but they do have large followers.

I don't follow any fragrance creators except joy amin, he is very genuine, and humble and regular type of guy, his taste similar to mine.

Joy Amin is awesome. Nothing is ever scripted. He just says what is ever on his mind.
If he doesn't like it, you'll soon find out.
Rambling Ramsey is great for the vintage stuff.
Robes08 gets to the point, eventually.
He did a review of Tom Ford's Black Laquer.
In short, it's like an average perfume person of CdG's Black.
CDG's Black, $110 for 100 ml. Tom Ford's Black Laquer, $225 for a 1 oz.
Yes, I said 1 oz. It wasn't too long ago you could buy a TF 1 oz for $110.
A TF Body spray is $100 now. I used to buy one for my birthday for $60.
So I can understand a little when buyers want huge performance.
Myself, I would buy CdG Black, or just get something smokey from the artisans.

 

[jbs1]

Are stinky hands a common issue?

Clothes dab be stinky but again, just wear perfume. I have been in plenty of hotels that smell just fine, so if other hotels need to use detergent to cover up the smell of their towels and bedding, then there’s an issue.

No stinky hands here. I have colognes like CdG's Series 4 Cologne.
I wish I bought the bigger bottle. I'm going through the 125 ml.
I love the old splashes.

 

[Matty]

Yup, I agree with everything being said. I've kind of noticed that perfumes and anything perfumed (soaps, candles, air fresheners...) are smelling all similar, often smelling sweet, sugary, fake fruits and "pumpkin spiced". When I go out to the mall, grocery stores or other public spaces of congregation I'm always smelling the same synthetic molecules, some sort of "nuclear" sweet, ambery, spices and fruits smell. Smells all the same after awhile. $20 Lattafa or $400 Tom Ford a lot of them are sharing the same "nuclear" offense.

Could be just a change in smell of a very long ongoing trend, 30 years ago or so I would have been smelling L'aire du temps, Anais Anais, Poison, Trésor........EVERYWHERE 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[Loulikesoud]

I think the trend of Iso E + ambroxan + hedione has been extended* to that of ethyl maltol, sotolone, and megadoses of evernyl.

On a plane right now and the smell of Baccarat Rouge is everywhere!

 

[DubOudh]

I do a fair bit of running out my way and it still bugs me whenever I run past another person out running and they have that detergent after scent, that stays in my nose for a while. I can almost taste it in my mouth. I think actually body sweat from the running is more natural and fine by me..

 

[Scentlover98]

I remember walking trough the park last week and I ran into gigantic cloud of ultra sweet alderhydic, synthetic vanillic cloud of fragrance. It was definitely a feminine scent (I hope so) . And I was shocked. I immediately looked around and couldn’t see a single person in the entire park. The woman had most likely been gone for several minutes as the park is quite large, and I couldn’t detect a single person. This kind of cloud(or lets call it trail) was so strong (in a negative way) and intense that you would have guessed that she just had walked pass you. It felt like I was attacked. I immediately held my breath and took a different path. If I really wanted I probably could have tracked her down and found her.

 

[Scentlover98]

And for everyone that wants a healthy deodorant, you just have to mix coconut oil and backing soda till it looks like a paste. You can can then swipe it under your armpits. It neutralizes bad smell.

The lauric acid in the coconut oil combined with the baking soda have an antibacterial and anti-inflammatory effect. This ensures that sweat is decomposed more slowly by bacteria and fungi, thereby blocking/inhibiting the unpleasant odors that arise during this process. You can optionally add some drops of your favorite (and safe EO), but I use it without an EO and it really works great. It is definitely the safer option.

If you’re looking for a healthy soap there is probably no better option than Aleppo soap out there. It contains only 3 ingredients if I am not mistaken.

 

[BeanBurritoMan]

@Scentlover98 thank you for all this. I want to try these things. What do you use for laundry detergent?

 

[Saudalhajri]

Baccarat Rouge

This is my guilty pleasure 🥲
I actually got my hands on it in pure oil form, I poured it over low grade Indian oud chips and burn it every now and then. They go very well together.

 

[Castingshadows]

I’m not chemophobic. I don’t view commercial perfumes as being inherently dangerous. The regulations around commercial are more strict and regulated than natural materials which are by and far way more dangerous, proven toxicities to the average human in much smaller doses than what’s typically found in a commercial perfume.

I know this sentiment isn’t popular especially in a community like this but I see no issues with these fragrances. Nor do I see issues with naturals because it all comes down to responsible use. I know way more people have had allergic reactions and sensitivities develop because of the people doing negligent home perfumery in the indie/artisan/Oud world than I have from something found at a mall. The worst I’ve seen is someone gets a headache from something found at a mall. The worst I’ve seen from the all natural community is blisters, rashes, all over body hives, struggle breathing, and the inability to ever wear certain materials again.

I don’t like all natural perfumery because as a whole almost everyone who takes on natural perfumery is just downright bad at it. Like really bad. Mud has become an acceptable art form. Bad perfumery has become acceptable as long as you say it’s all natural and poorly blended no one will care just how bad the perfumes are. It’s rare when an all natural perfumer has the ability to make something new, fresh, and creative. It’s always just the same old stuff rehashed in perpetuity. Aroma molecules being demonized in this community often comes from studies published by companies wishing to sell us “clean products” and aren’t indicative of synthetic materials being inherently dangerous at the proper usage. Hence why there is so much strict standards around these materials.

I’d be much more worried about adverse health reactions from someone overdosing oakmoss absolute in a blend than someone using ambroxan.

 

[Mr.P]

Joy Amin is awesome. Nothing is ever scripted. He just says what is ever on his mind.
If he doesn't like it, you'll soon find out.
Rambling Ramsey is great for the vintage stuff.
Robes08 gets to the point, eventually.
He did a review of Tom Ford's Black Laquer.
In short, it's like an average perfume person of CdG's Black.
CDG's Black, $110 for 100 ml. Tom Ford's Black Laquer, $225 for a 1 oz.
Yes, I said 1 oz. It wasn't too long ago you could buy a TF 1 oz for $110.
A TF Body spray is $100 now. I used to buy one for my birthday for $60.
So I can understand a little when buyers want huge performance.
Myself, I would buy CdG Black, or just get something smokey from the artisans.

well from a performance standpoint it seems this fellow's perfume was the value of the century

I think the trend of Iso E + ambroxan + hedione has been exteneee to that of ethyl maltol, sotolone, and megadoses of evernyl.

On a plane right now and the smell of Baccarat Rouge is everywhere!

Not familiar with all those materials, other than seeing them listed (seemingly) in a majority of formulas posted at BN. Iso-e and ambroxan I know

I’m not chemophobic. I don’t view commercial perfumes as being inherently dangerous. The regulations around commercial are more strict and regulated than natural materials which are by and far way more dangerous, proven toxicities to the average human in much smaller doses than what’s typically found in a commercial perfume.

I know this sentiment isn’t popular especially in a community like this but I see no issues with these fragrances. Nor do I see issues with naturals because it all comes down to responsible use. I know way more people have had allergic reactions and sensitivities develop because of the people doing negligent home perfumery in the indie/artisan/Oud world than I have from something found at a mall. The worst I’ve seen is someone gets a headache from something found at a mall. The worst I’ve seen from the all natural community is blisters, rashes, all over body hives, struggle breathing, and the inability to ever wear certain materials again.

I think a little research will back up this perspective since synthetic scents are so much more defined / simple. I think the idea that natural materials are safer by virtue of being natural is just marketing, although there is something to be said about using materials that are biodegradable and so on. There's been a few synthetics that had to be taken off the market due to accumulation in ecosystems and so on.

I'd be curious to know about what combinations of naturals produced those reactions you talk about! I've read Tisserand's book so I have a sense for what the suspects are but it would always be good to know the details in a case like this!

 

[Castingshadows]

well from a performance standpoint it seems this fellow's perfume was the value of the century

Not familiar with all those materials, other than seeing them listed (seemingly) in a majority of formulas posted at BN. Iso-e and ambroxan I know


I think a little research will back up this perspective. I'd be curious to know about what combinations of naturals produced those reactions you talk about! I've read Tisserand's book so I have a sense for what the suspects are but it would always be good to know the details in a case like this!

I added more to the post in an edit. I hit post reply too early.

But there’s a massive list of restricted materials because of proven sensitivities and allergens. Go on Eden botanicals and start reading disclaimers. A large percentage of the materials they sell have strict usage limits because of photo-sensitivities and toxicities in high uses. Especially with absolutes.

Oakmoss is the biggest culprit. Many people will develop sensitivities to it over time through repeated exposure eventually leaving them entirely allergic to the material. This happens with a lot of repeated exposure to certain florals, spices, and even bergamot has photosensitivity to light exposure. Spill some bergamot on your hand and walk out into the sun. You’ll feel the burn almost immediately.

 

[Castingshadows]

I should add as well I’m just a fan of perfumery. I love the world of smell. I don’t view naturals any different than synthetics. I don’t see a difference between a beautiful material like ambrarome being isolated from labdanum being inherently bad simply because it was isolated using science and chemistry.

 

[Mr.P]

I added more to the post in an edit. I hit post reply too early.

But there’s a massive list of restricted materials because of proven sensitivities and allergens. Go on Eden botanicals and start reading disclaimers. A large percentage of the materials they sell have strict usage limits because of photo-sensitivities and toxicities in high uses. Especially with absolutes.

Oakmoss is the biggest culprit. Many people will develop sensitivities to it over time through repeated exposure eventually leaving them entirely allergic to the material. This happens with a lot of repeated exposure to certain florals, spices, and even bergamot has photosensitivity to light exposure. Spill some bergamot on your hand and walk out into the sun. You’ll feel the burn almost immediately.

I've had the bergamot reaction once before and I've been careful never to repeat that!

Nothing chokes me up like a strong synthetic heavy fragrance, but I have no objection to synthetics in a general sense (which I mention since I started this thread and did not intend to be bashing on synthetics in general). For whatever reason I'm fixated on the challenge of working without them but I do have a few just because they can be quite interesting!


and on that note I will just reiterate that my issue is with the specific clumsy composition and offensive performance and overdosing of whatever the heck was in the perfume. It's an unfortunate trend in perfumery that feels like it is in poor taste just due to being so disrespectful of any kind of boundaries

 

[SophMarie]

I had a real fragrance enthusiast come by the shop today which was excellent. Had a good time talking about Middle Eastern attars and oud. It was really nice to share some top shelf oud with someone who could appreciate it.

It was an interesting experience though because this gentleman had a small sample bottle of a commercial chemical fragrance he wanted to share with me, and he sprayed one spritz of it in the corner of the shop. That spray stunk up the shop so bad that a customer who came in a half hour later remarked it was the only thing she could smell when she opened the door on the opposite side the shop. I'm at home now hours later, and I can still smell the stuff even though I never physically came in contact with it - it just clung to me by virtue of my being in the same space. The scent was super sweet heavy in maltol and jasmine synthetics and melon aldehyde and was like an olfactory cosh to the side of the head.

I sometimes hear folks talk about the fact that they can't compose with only natural materials or don't like natural perfume because of the lack of performance, but when I smell things like this I realize the problem is the exact opposite. Those aggressive space filling fragrance bombs are not quality perfume - they are poorly composed and in poor taste. I don't see how anybody can stand them unless they've just become so desensitized from daily continuous exposure that they don't perceive the intensity of these things.

Anyway it was kind of shocking after quite a bit of time working with naturals to experience this product with the volume turned up to 11... On a practical level I also can't imagine making perfume with these kind of materials because they're just so flat and aggressive and uninteresting. It must be brutal on the senses, given the intensity of scent in the final perfumes. I was reading a thread over at basenotes about people trying to create these space filling scent clouds, as if this is a desirable aspect of a perfume, and I'm kind of dumbstruck because i perceive that as a negative- the olfactory equivalent of hiking at a public park with a personal stereo at maximum volume.

Apologies for the rant - I'm disgusted by the intensity of that scent and it was this kind of experience that led me to stop sampling perfumes in a general sense back in the late 90s after period of pretty intense study.

Happy to say that none of the artisans here have ever sent anything my way that was anything like this.

When I wore commercial/chemical fragrances I was obsessive about buying dab bottles not spray. My taste ran to intimate frags like Serge Lutens Clair de Music and A La Nuit. Though I love Fracas, I rarely wore it and when I did, I'd have to do the silly, spray-the-air and walk into it routine.