supposed Kynam agarwood from China flooding the gulf markets

[iori]

Then, as for the fact that the Gulf countries invite them etc ... It is not a guarantee of quality

That's i agree with.

The Gulf markets are today mainly interested in the low price without great demands for quality or authenticity ... Just look at the abdsq products released in recent years ...

That's a bit stretching it at least for Kuwait, lots of new people into the hobby and many of old ones look for quality, and market have lots of great quality woods, and looking at abdsq or ajmal as bases is wrong, many of local shops have way better wood.

 

[Abu Imran]

I've not bought anything from her. I was just using her as an example. I have chatted to her though a few times and she is very responsive and will answer all your questions directly. Were the samples you bought from her?

I gave her feedback and told her what I thought of her oils and she didn't respond to me again.

In doubt, I sent samples to another oud lover and the result was the same, feeling of discomfort when using the oil and headaches...

 

[Abu Imran]

That's i agree with.

That's a bit stretching it at least for Kuwait, lots of new people into the hobby and many of old ones look for quality, and market have lots of great quality woods, and looking at abdsq or ajmal as bases is wrong, many of local shops have way better wood.

It is true that we should not generalize.
There are reliable suppliers who strive for quality.

 

[alex1971]

Are you sure this saleswoman is reliable?

I bought samples including oils and everything was adulterated.
The oils were supposed to be wild Hainan and I would definitely say it wasn't wild but worse it's not oud alone.

Despite the good smell of cultivated kinam, I feel nauseous when I use its oils and I almost fainted.... And that only happens to me with chemical products.

Even though I find that his woods smell good of cultivated kinam, I would be extremely careful with this type of seller.

Someone who can call a product 'wild' when it isn't is probably capable of worse... Not to mention the fact that the oils make me abnormally ill...

Then, as for the fact that the Gulf countries invite them etc ... It is not a guarantee of quality, on the contrary. The Gulf markets are today mainly interested in the low price without great demands for quality or authenticity ... Just look at the abdsq products released in recent years ...

I was told when I ask about Hainan wood was wild and over 100 years old trees

 

[AlHind Oud]

I didn't go through the entire thread but from the many sources I learned that these people only drill holes to the tress and not inoculate with chemicals. It used to happened many years ago but they eliminated it from China. It's like injuring the tree and leave them for few years to produce the resin.

As far as I know, inoculation is prominent in Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, Phillipines and maybe few other regions.

 

[Olfactory Nomad]

I gave her feedback and told her what I thought of her oils and she didn't respond to me again.

In doubt, I sent samples to another oud lover and the result was the same, feeling of discomfort when using the oil and headaches...

Sorry to hear that man, we all get burnt one way or another when starting out. But look, I will say her business is solid and her reputation is outstanding in what she does. She has literally hundreds of international buyers. I have not bought from her personally so I cannot speak for her oils but many others do and it's really not a bad idea for someone to get them tested as @Aroma Sublime suggested.

 

[William Birch]

It's quite upsetting to me when you put it that way man. These people in the Gulf have been used to burning pretty decent stuff over the decades, especially Cambodi woods and Indian wood, I believe. I dont think they are gonna like a massive influx of, cheap, and I mean cheeeeeap CK, that they have had little experience with and most people in the Gulf usually burn right off the coal, and CK really shows its best when it is heated rather than burned, so I feel these people will not like this stuff. Sad really.

But you can get really good CK like @TheAgarwoodShop has Sinking Purple Cultivated Kyara that was taken out of the tree much much later after it was more matured, and I have smelled it and it has none of that awful CK profile, it is very close to wild @Olfactory Nomad has also tried it and says it also does not have this CK profile. I thought I was dreaming when I tried it because it was close to wild in the quality of aroma, and didnt have that CK profile at all, of course not as "good" (complexities in the notes) as wild kyara that I have, and will be getting more of, but it is the best CK I have ever tried, hands down.

I was curious about Kinam/Kynam in the gulf because as you said it appears that in the Gulf states most oud users burn right off a hot coal but in order for the best experience of that kind of wood gentle heating is required usually with a barrier between the heat source and the wood.

I cannot also find any kind of Kinam/Kyara equivalent grading system for these Gulf but my only reference is this paper.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303729688_Keeping_Up_Appearances_Agarwood_Grades_and_Quality

 

[-Renton-]

I was curious about Kinam/Kynam in the gulf because as you said it appears that in the Gulf states most oud users burn right off a hot coal but in order for the best experience of that kind of wood gentle heating is required usually with a barrier between the heat source and the wood.

I cannot also find any kind of Kinam/Kyara equivalent grading system for these Gulf but my only reference is this paper.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303729688_Keeping_Up_Appearances_Agarwood_Grades_and_Quality

The best way to use CK and Wild Kyara is with a ceramic kinam heater (so a vertical style heater, if you are familiar?, I am sure you are) that has at least starts at 60c and goes up by 20c maximum, no higher, or better yet, by 1c at a time. And you shave the CK, just like you would with Real Wild Kyara and put the shavings on the that heater, no mica or silver dish, which usually comes with these heaters and they smell awful, so no ones uses them they just put the woods directly on the kinam heater. The kinam heater is also good for other top shelf, high grade aloeswoods too. Subitisms have their place as well for woods that dont really produce a lot of aroma on a kinam heater.

 

[iori]

It is true that we should not generalize.
There are reliable suppliers who strive for quality.

We have issue in here along with other countries of middle east, many of old timers who used to buy wood and store..they put everything together in same box, like Malaysian, Laotian, Indian, Cambodian etc.
This has caused lots of mixing in wood and errors by many...
Which is why most of old stock Indian, Laotian, Cambodian in fact Malay or indo wood.
And this have effected lots of new generations collectors and sellers, you get sold a wood as a thing while its another thing.
Sadly it seem this issue also in other markets, i seen it in chinese, taiwanese markets and so on.
I remember i gave a friend authentic tarakan sample i got from HK, so when he showed it to someone consider himself expert he were like "Oh thats a nice cambodian wood" when he told him its tarakan he facepalm.
I have seen lately many claims of Malaysian, Malinau with cambodian aroma and those what i meant by they based ther experience on wrong sample and came to this conclusion while in truth it wasn't cambodian whats passed to them but an indo or malay wood sadly.

 

[Olfactory Nomad]

Big business https://www.facebook.com/share/r/15iCmmhk6Q/

 

[Saudalhajri]

I gave her feedback and told her what I thought of her oils and she didn't respond to me again.

In doubt, I sent samples to another oud lover and the result was the same, feeling of discomfort when using the oil and headaches...

Abu Imran I’m sorry to hear that, we all get scammed at least once. What you describe seems like what I call “factory smell” or “distillation smell” that happens with new distillations. Have you tried curing in the sun and aging it for a few months? It might change.

 

[alex1971]

Abu Imran I’m sorry to hear that, we all get scammed at least once. What you describe seems like what I call “factory smell” or “distillation smell” that happens with new distillations. Have you tried curing in the sun and aging it for a few months? It might change.

Plantation wood oud oil has a flat aroma,has also not base,middle and top notes,It doesn't change with age,is far away from wild
Has no complexity,forest,deep aroma like wild

 

[Saudalhajri]

Plantation wood oud oil has a flat aroma,has also not base,middle and top notes,It doesn't change with age,is far away from wild
Has no complexity,forest,deep aroma like wild

Plantation oil can definitely change with aging. You might mistaking with CO2 oil.
I’ve seen plantation oils improve with age, in the end it’s an essential oil.

What I’m referring to in my previous post was the distillation smell, fresh oud and sandalwood oil right from the still can sometimes smell bad and outright offensive, doesn’t matter if cultivated or wild, and has to go through curing and moisture removal, which is separate from aging.

What I was asking Abu Imran is if he tried to cure it in the sun and age it to remove the moisture and the distillation smell, and improve the scent, or at least make it more palatable.

I’ve had some sandalwoods and oud oils from cultivated wood that smelled bad in the start, and some of them smelled very good after a couple days in the sun and aging after curing, that’s why I suggested that.

 

[Mr.P]

Plantation oil can definitely change with aging. You might mistaking with CO2 oil.
I’ve seen plantation oils improve with age, in the end it’s an essential oil.

What I’m referring to in my previous post was the distillation smell, fresh oud and sandalwood oil right from the still can sometimes smell bad and outright offensive, doesn’t matter if cultivated or wild, and has to go through curing and moisture removal, which is separate from aging.

What I was asking Abu Imran is if he tried to cure it in the sun and age it to remove the moisture and the distillation smell, and improve the scent, or at least make it more palatable.

I’ve had some sandalwoods and oud oils from cultivated wood that smelled bad in the start, and some of them smelled very good after a couple days in the sun and aging after curing, that’s why I suggested that.

I agree completely.

Plantation oil can definitely change with aging. You might mistaking with CO2 oil.
I’ve seen plantation oils improve with age, in the end it’s an essential oil.

What I’m referring to in my previous post was the distillation smell, fresh oud and sandalwood oil right from the still can sometimes smell bad and outright offensive, doesn’t matter if cultivated or wild, and has to go through curing and moisture removal, which is separate from aging.

What I was asking Abu Imran is if he tried to cure it in the sun and age it to remove the moisture and the distillation smell, and improve the scent, or at least make it more palatable.

I’ve had some sandalwoods and oud oils from cultivated wood that smelled bad in the start, and some of them smelled very good after a couple days in the sun and aging after curing, that’s why I suggested that.

My experience with aging oud is similar to yours - my impression is of gradual change across the board regardless of the origin of the oil. I believe I see younger plantation oils going through more obvious changes and higher quality mature oils generally showing very gradual change.

On the other hand I have smelled some new young Thais that seem kind of "dead" - they have this chemically simple smell akin to benzaldehyde / wintergreenish / marzipan that gets locked in and is very slow to change.

 

[Saudalhajri]

My experience with aging oud is similar to yours - my impression is of gradual change across the board regardless of the origin of the oil. I believe I see younger plantation oils going through more obvious changes and higher quality mature oils generally showing very gradual change.

It might because wild oud is usually older and more mature in its raw form, so it doesn’t get affected by the aging as much? It’s all so obscure anyways.

On the other hand I have smelled some new young Thais that seem kind of "dead" - they have this chemically simple smell akin to benzaldehyde / wintergreenish / marzipan that gets locked in and is very slow to change

Haha I can relate, I had a whole batch of Thai ouds with this type of scent, with like a tingling in the back of your throat, and a taste like artificial fruit drop candies (the hard ones).

This is a good example of bad cultivated oil that became better. I bought these over a month ago and it was terrible. Three oils from Nagaland, Manipur and Assam. I almost threw them out but thought I’d experiment. I mixed them and tried them and they were still bad.
After putting them in the sun with the cap open for 5 days, and leaving them in a dark cabinet for a month they became better. Much smoother, sweeter, with a little floral funky background.
I’ll keep it in the cabinet for few more years then check, but even now it’s completely usable and good.

 

[Abu Imran]

Abu Imran I’m sorry to hear that, we all get scammed at least once. What you describe seems like what I call “factory smell” or “distillation smell” that happens with new distillations. Have you tried curing in the sun and aging it for a few months? It might change.

Unfortunately yes we have all had bad experiences with dishonest people.

Honestly, in my opinion, the oils I have tried are adulterated.

Beyond the simple smell of distillation that I recognize, there is an unusual smell that causes headaches and nausea...

And it had the same effect on other people...

For the oils from new distillations yes I see what you mean but unfortunately that's not it here... Especially since they are sold as aged wild Hainan oils...

BarakAllah fik brother

 

[Olfactory Nomad]

20K views · 322 reactions | Winter has arrived, marking the peak season for grafting Kynam agarwood saplings! Currently, China maintains an annual growth of 20 to 30 million Kynam saplings! #Agarwood #Agarwoodsapling #Kynam #Kynamsapling #Agarwoodtre

Winter has arrived, marking the peak season for grafting Kynam agarwood saplings! Currently, China maintains an annual growth of 20 to 30 million Kynam saplings! #Agarwood #Agarwoodsapling #Kynam...

www.facebook.com

 

[IbnRIbnAAIbnA]

Plantation oil can definitely change with aging. You might mistaking with CO2 oil.
I’ve seen plantation oils improve with age, in the end it’s an essential oil.

What I’m referring to in my previous post was the distillation smell, fresh oud and sandalwood oil right from the still can sometimes smell bad and outright offensive, doesn’t matter if cultivated or wild, and has to go through curing and moisture removal, which is separate from aging.

What I was asking Abu Imran is if he tried to cure it in the sun and age it to remove the moisture and the distillation smell, and improve the scent, or at least make it more palatable.

I’ve had some sandalwoods and oud oils from cultivated wood that smelled bad in the start, and some of them smelled very good after a couple days in the sun and aging after curing, that’s why I suggested that.

Whats the difference between co2 oil and plantation oil?

 

[Saudalhajri]

Whats the difference between co2 oil and plantation oil?

CO2 refers to the extraction. plantations refers to the type of raw materials.

 

[Ibn ehsan]

So I had the opportunity to try some Kinam wood today and shockingly it was so cheap they were selling it for 20dhs/tola obviously I tried and it smelled like genuine agarwood in the initial stage of the burn it smelled like what you smell in Indian sallah but only the green spicy part and in the later stages it smelled like trat but still I don’t know how real agarwood is selling for such cheap

I asked them and they said since this is plantations and there is lots of it this is so cheap but again most of the wood sold in the market is plantation right ? Especially from India Indonesia and Thailand if I am not wrong but you will never get a good quality Indian wood for such cheap prices so what’s the catch does someone know ?