Kyara/Kynam: IS IT REALLY OUD?

[Rai Munir]

Hypothetically if there were to be this " cultivated kynam" will you buy it ? and sell it as real? one can only be stuck in denial . instead of debating over this, i would petition instead that we educate or rather share to each other what truly is the real kynam not the claimed " kynam"

That's it. Otherwise, it has no end at all. A year or two before, tagging an oil with the word Kyara or Kinam was cashed in a best possible way. Now dilution is to be done by throwing another coinage Cultivated Kynam. Its sequel will be Bouya Made Kyara.

 

[Alex]

Hypothetically if there were to be this " cultivated kynam" will you buy it ? and sell it as real? one can only be stuck in denial . instead of debating over this, i would petition instead that we educate or rather share to each other what truly is the real kynam not the claimed " kynam"

technically all current kinam in the market is "cultivated kynam" unless you are (or I'm) the king of Saudi Arabia, a billionaire Asian mogul or a 3rd generation Japanese kinam collector, all that you can get or buy is "cultivated kynam". you can't sell it as (REAL) if you mean wild by real. (cultivated is not fake or chemical it is real to a very accurate degree it is just not wild it took human interference and much less time). and as I have mentioned before a GC lab test will definitely and optimally shows if the wood is cultivated or wild, through the percentage of specific identifiers. real Kinam (or wild if that is what meant here) will not only sink like a stone in water but when it's burned will go in a straight line of one meter or more, additionally the color or the smoke will be greenish those are the easiest and most obvious ways to know wild kinam. with that mentioned cultivated kinam is not cheap, fake or, easy to make keep in mind it need a minimum of 2 to 3 years to start generating and farmers spends lots of time, effort, and money to produce it and yes it does smells heavenly good and yes it dose smells (almost identical) to real or wild kinam (kindly note I said almost identical) because there are those few who will pull a wild kinam accord from a thousand notes that smells just like wild kinam (to the regular person or even the oud enthusiast it will smell the same) if you ask me personally (and this is just my personal opinion) I would say get a high quality "cultivated kinam" 5 years or more, try it and smell it and enjoy it rather than just arguing and talking about wild and ancient kinam without having a clue how it smells or what it is like to burn it on a slow low heat electrical burner with a cup of Chinese tea or some real good coffee. regards to all

 

[Mr.P]

The challenge as a person on the sidelines is figuring out what / who to believe in the absence of adequate first hand experience.

 

[Alex]

The challenge as a person on the sidelines is figuring out what / who to believe in the absence of adequate first hand experience.

it is true dear, but that's why I have made this effort and posts to explain it and educate people about it. it is simple
if anyone say I have or selling "kianm"
simply say where is your lab test
(check it make sure its' from a decent official lab, certified and signed by a professional technician and authenticated by a botanist or chemist) this will eliminate 99% of the noise about the subject, finally get some authentic small piece of kinam from a respected and well-known house or company smell it and experience the profile of it this way you will have the on hand experience and the actual scientific proof.

it's not that confusing even though some may intentionally or unintentionally try to make it confusing!

it's really not as hard as people think and just for the sake of the knowledge and educating everyone I will explore and explain the kinds of kinam available in the market now with full details and pictures (which I doubt any other house or company will do) and this should give everyone the final understanding about kinam (now again I know with all do respect some people here or in other places will simply oppose and argue simply for the sake or opposing and argument so I will keep this very short simple and elaborate for those who want to learn and benefit, we are not a kinam farm, or kinam distributor, and I have absolutely no benefit or reason to provide any false information, finally we have been in the this field for over 300 years we have been commissioned, consulted and asked to view, review and assess all kinds of wood specially kinam, we have done multiple studies and lab tests paid thousands of dollars for all different kinds of samples and wood specially kinam and work hand to hand with kinam farmers, collector and experts for decades.
here is the net post coming

 

[Mr.P]

Well, I know you will find many folks eager to learn here, so please share whatever you are willing and able.

 

[Alex]

1- first picture for a fresh (newly planted kinam plantation in Vietnam)
2- second picture for a fresh 1 year old kinam chip this is the minimum it takes to start producing anything this is not usually used or sold but simply to elaborate and educate. (you can see clearly the green edges and the wood is still very wet in a way not dry not dark and not anything like incense grade).
3- third picture for 1.5 or 2 years chips from a kinam plantation this is the minimum that can be used for burning or incense it is considered the lowest grade. you can see it's pretty light color and the wood veins are still there available and obvious to the eye additionally it smells more woody than it smells like kinam.
4- fourth picture this is for a 3 years old or (3 plus) piece of kinam and you can see that there are less veins in it it is heavier and more solid in texture and you can actually smell some kinam in it (by saying smell I mean smelling the wood without burning it because kinam will always smell as a wood by itself unlike many other kinds of wood that must be burned to get the smell).
5- fifth picture is for a 5 years old middle trunk piece that is almost all black in color it is heavy and you can clearly smell the kinam notes out of it. it is also much darker and more solid in texture solid not in the sense that it is wood solid but incense wood solid this mean it is solid but when broken it tends to break in with residue just like most old incense wood and not like a wood branch or a fresh wood.
6- this is the inside or side texture and color of the 5 years old plus wood you can see it's pretty dark and full and when cleaned it's pretty nice.
7- finally this is a 10 years or 10 plus piece of kinam that is called royal or king kinam and this is to me the nearest to can get from wild kinam it is not wild as everything I mentioned here is from plantations) but this is almost identical to the wild kinam in profile and it is heavenly in both smell and quality. this is usually used to make bracelets and necklaces and if you are wondering about the price so just you know and don't get taken by any of the new kinam/Kyara hypes this piece by itself is in market price in Vietnam for about 50 k (50000 usd) after it's cut cleaned and made into a bracelet or necklace it goes for around 60 to 70k ( 60000 to 70000 usd). and it is not easy to find and when it's found/made it's almost always sold very quickly and you may wonder who would buy a wood bracelet for 70k, trust me many will and they do. so next time someone throws the wild kinam parabola on you for something for couple thousand dollars be certain that it is not kinam.
I hope this was helpful and informative for everyone here. please forgive me for any errors or mistakes in writings I'm using a new device without typing correction.
and as always have a wonderful olfactorial day!

 

[Joe King]

1- first picture for a fresh (newly planted kinam plantation in Vietnam)
2- second picture for a fresh 1 year old kinam chip this is the minimum it takes to start producing anything this is not usually used or sold but simply to elaborate and educate. (you can see clearly the green edges and the wood is still very wet in a way not dry not dark and not anything like incense grade).
3- third picture for 1.5 or 2 years chips from a kinam plantation this is the minimum that can be used for burning or incense it is considered the lowest grade. you can see it's pretty light color and the wood veins are still there available and obvious to the eye additionally it smells more woody than it smells like kinam.
4- fourth picture this is for a 3 years old or (3 plus) piece of kinam and you can see that there are less veins in it it is heavier and more solid in texture and you can actually smell some kinam in it (by saying smell I mean smelling the wood without burning it because kinam will always smell as a wood by itself unlike many other kinds of wood that must be burned to get the smell).
5- fifth picture is for a 5 years old middle trunk piece that is almost all black in color it is heavy and you can clearly smell the kinam notes out of it. it is also much darker and more solid in texture solid not in the sense that it is wood solid but incense wood solid this mean it is solid but when broken it tends to break in with residue just like most old incense wood and not like a wood branch or a fresh wood.
6- this is the inside or side texture and color of the 5 years old plus wood you can see it's pretty dark and full and when cleaned it's pretty nice.
7- finally this is a 10 years or 10 plus piece of kinam that is called royal or king kinam and this is to me the nearest to can get from wild kinam it is not wild as everything I mentioned here is from plantations) but this is almost identical to the wild kinam in profile and it is heavenly in both smell and quality. this is usually used to make bracelets and necklaces and if you are wondering about the price so just you know and don't get taken by any of the new kinam/Kyara hypes this piece by itself is in market price in Vietnam for about 50 k (50000 usd) after it's cut cleaned and made into a bracelet or necklace it goes for around 60 to 70k ( 60000 to 70000 usd). and it is not easy to find and when it's found/made it's almost always sold very quickly and you may wonder who would buy a wood bracelet for 70k, trust me many will and they do. so next time someone throws the wild kinam parabola on you for something for couple thousand dollars be certain that it is not kinam.
I hope this was helpful and informative for everyone here. please forgive me for any errors or mistakes in writings I'm using a new device without typing correction.
and as always have a wonderful olfactorial day!

Alex I am curious as to what variety of Aquillaria tree they are using, Aquilaria Crassna or Malaccensis? It is strange that you talk about kinam plantations, as kinam is not a type of tree, rather it is a particular type of oud formation.

 

[Joe King]

if anyone say I have or selling "kianm"
simply say where is your lab test

I will keep this very short simple and elaborate for those who want to learn and benefit, we are not a kinam farm, or kinam distributor, and I have absolutely no benefit or reason to provide any false information

Where is your lab test?

If you are not a Kinam farm or kinam distributor how is it you are selling Kinam on your website?

 

[Woodland Note]

For some time since the beginning of my oud journey I had this impression that kinam is a very old wood of certain species of agarwood tree, like 80+ years old at least with a certain scent profile. Hence the rarity and high price.
Now I’m a bit confused. 🙂

Also I remember reading an article about it on kyarazen, where the author stated that there is absolutely no cultivated kinam/kyara existing. Was the author wrong about this? Hmm...

 

[Mr.P]

I know... now I’m supposed to believe all kinam that’s on the market is cultivated. A year ago, it was dogma that this was only old, wild material. Not saying Alex or Kyarazen don’t know what they are talking about, just that from my perspective it is hard to know who / what to believe! Time will tell.

 

[Rai Munir]

Also I remember reading an article about it on kyarazen, where the author stated that there is absolutely no cultivated kinam/kyara existing. Was the author wrong about this? Hmm...

Respected Woodland Note, I am thinking now it will become clear that for the last many decades, only cultivated Oud had been sold as Kynam.
Possibilities are always there.

 

[Alex]

Where is your lab test?

If you are not a Kinam farm or kinam distributor how is it you are selling Kinam on your website?

listed on this forum check the previous posts
"If you are not a Kinam farm or kinam distributor how is it you are selling Kinam on your website? "
I'm not sure if I understand you questions or the sense behind it but will try to answer it anyway
kinam farmer is the person who grow or cultivate kinam from their own farms and that is also the distributor. we are not a kinam farmer we are a perfume house and company with lots of experience and knowledge in this field so we source, work with and select some kinam and/or other materials that we see fit best and through our knowledge, experience, and science (lab test) we offer the best materials we can get to people.

 

[Alex]

For some time since the beginning of my oud journey I had this impression that kinam is a very old wood of certain species of agarwood tree, like 80+ years old at least with a certain scent profile. Hence the rarity and high price.
Now I’m a bit confused. 🙂
- many people do have that impression and I'm really sorry if this came with any disappointment or blunt saying but you are probably reading about wild jungle kinam and yes that is actually minimum of 100 years plus and that dose not exist anymore at least in the market and for the public.

Also I remember reading an article about it on kyarazen, where the author stated that there is absolutely no cultivated kinam/kyara existing. Was the author wrong about this? Hmm...

- I'm not sure who was the author or what was the article or what exactly is said but let me make it very clear here (all current kinam that is in the market is 100% cultivated kinam I have been in kinam farms, I have see cultivated kinam, I have smelled cultivated kinam, and I have seen many people and unfortunatly some companies marketing and selling this cultivated kinam as wild kinam. so to make this short if the author of this article said that there is no cultivated kinam he is wrong, very wrong and I will simply say take a trip to Vietnam and you will see the farms the whole process yourself)
with all respect to all, I'm presenting scientific evidence, the knowledge and experience of 300 years, and heavily working with kinam for the last 10 years so I know a thing or two about the subject, and I will say this with all respect to all please don't believe everything you read online !

 

[Alex]

Respected Woodland Note, I am thinking now it will become clear that for the last many decades, only cultivated Oud had been sold as Kynam.
Possibilities are always there.

yes this is true, all that is been sold as kynam for the last few decades is 100% cultivated kinam. this is a fact and not an opinion.
respect to all

 

[Alex]

Alex I am curious as to what variety of Aquillaria tree they are using, Aquilaria Crassna or Malaccensis? It is strange that you talk about kinam plantations, as kinam is not a type of tree, rather it is a particular type of oud formation.

both depending on the farm and the place in Vietnam they use different kinds of Aquillaria, yes dear i know that well but this "particular type of oud formation" is being cultivated and farmed so you can call it whatever you like, the market name for it is kinam, it get sold as kinam, it get bought as kinam and it is listed as kianm if we want to go to the exact meaning and accuracy, this is totally different than what was described as kinam in the ancient ages I have already explained this in details saying that the actual "kinam" or what was mentioned in the scrips as kinam is
1- extremely old (hundreds of years)
2- wild with no interference of any kind
3- when burned goes out in a straight line
4- the color of the smoke is greenish
(not of those properties apply to what is currently called kianm). but this is the nearest thing you can get to the ancient wild kinam. as I have explained previously.

 

[Alex]

I was going to send you a tour video of the Kinam farms and the way its' all made but don't have the owners permission yet. looks like many people dont know about the secret yet. but I promise I will try my best and if he agreed I will post the whole video here .
truth is freedom, and knowledge is power.

 

[Joe King]

listed on this forum check the previous posts
"If you are not a Kinam farm or kinam distributor how is it you are selling Kinam on your website? "
I'm not sure if I understand you questions or the sense behind it but will try to answer it anyway
kinam farmer is the person who grow or cultivate kinam from their own farms and that is also the distributor. we are not a kinam farmer we are a perfume house and company with lots of experience and knowledge in this field so we source, work with and select some kinam and/or other materials that we see fit best and through our knowledge, experience, and science (lab test) we offer the best materials we can get to people.

My understanding was that analysis of the GCMS report that you posted here showed that the wood you had tested showed no similarities with Kinam.

 

[Alex]

My

My understanding was that analysis of the GCMS report that you posted here showed that the wood you had tested showed no similarities with Kinam.

I'm not sure where you got that understanding from, the lab test I posted is for kinam wood. it say it on the first page on the test and in the results of the test it was done in a major USA lab, under strict measures, after so many checks and sampling, certified by a PHD chemist, a lab technician, a professional botanist, and Ali Attar himself. someone on this forum argued that there are no kinam constituents in the lab test and I educated the person in full details with scientific evidence and exact reference and proof please read the full previous posts to be clear on this subject.

 

[Joe King]

I'm not sure where you got that understanding from, the lab test I posted is for kinam wood. it say it on the first page on the test and in the results of the test it was done in a major USA lab, under strict measures, after so many checks and sampling, certified by a PHD chemist, a lab technician, a professional botanist, and Ali Attar himself. someone on this forum argued that there are no kinam constituents in the lab test and I educated the person in full details with scientific evidence and exact reference and proof please read the full previous posts to be clear on this subject.

I believe @powdernose had some valid questions and observations that your GCMS was not consistent with that of Kinam and I saw nothing from yourself to prove otherwise. There is a GCMS of Kyara/Kinam on respected Kyarazen's website. Saying something is Kinam is not proof that it is.

 

[VPhong]

My Black Kynam
It’s actual valued is less than US5.
This is the way of marketing.

Looking at how often this word Kynam/Kyara/Qi Nan has been appearing ever more frequently it occurred to me that the word can be used very freely. Meaning there are no conditions binding its use and you can’t get sued or legally prosecuted by law for any violation of its use and misrepresentation of its meaning or identification. Anyone and any company can use and abuse it how they like. As a result the value I used to see with this word/description has diminished for me greatly in recent years. It has become his kyara, a company’s qi nan, my kynam and all loosely based on each of our definition for it. We live in a very ... ahem ... liberal world when it comes to descriptions.😛