What Is the Normal Form of Peppergrass/Cress/Lepidium For Incense?

[Rakovsky]

I have been following this post and have become curious myself, so I did some searching.

In modern times, seashells seem to be considered inanimate objects such as rocks or sticks so, safe to walk on the beach.

The Gemera states that "only items one may eat may be used for the work of heaven".

I read many other items of pertinence here:

Onycha - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Matt,
The Torah bans eating blood, hence Orthodox Judaism carefully removes the blood from meat. However, de facto some miniscule amount of blood would naturally remain. My conclusion is that cleaning is considered to make the food clean.

In the case of seashells on the beach, the soft animal part is no longer typically in them. In the case of the seashell flaps, they also undergo a cleaning process with Carshinah Lye. Carshinah is most often translated as the grassy "Bitter Vetch" plant.

After trying to work out the meaning of Carshinah Lye, I wondered if "Shekheleth" could refer to Opercula after they have been cleansed with Carshinah lye from grassy plants as the Talmud prescribes. That could explain why the name Shekheleth resembles Shekhaliim (peppergrass).

I made a thread trying to unravel the meaning of Carshinah Lye here and am interested in your thoughts: https://www.ouddict.com/threads/what-was-karshinah-lye-can-you-get-it-today.9381/

 

[Matty]

I've read the thread about Carshinah lye, there are obviously many different interpretations.

Onycha is still used today, I think there may be more to understand by discovering how it is prepared elsewhere; is treatment necessary, what is produced by the action of alkaline.

The crux at this point seems to be understanding if an animal of abonimation is able to be rendered pure enough to be used in ceremony. My superficial glance at the culture's history seems to indicate that what is or isn't permissible has changed through time along with the meaning/definition of their written text.

For the incense project at hand I think some expérimentation would be best if one searches for an appreciable outcome, understanding the ancient recipe is a greater adventure that could possibly take longer than a lifetime to discover.

I would love to hear about any trials anyone performs with the onycha shells, treating them or creating a fragrant product.

 

[Rakovsky]

שְׁכִינָה Shekinah is still relevant in Judaism today and especially associated with Shabbath. This is very much understood from a kabalistic view point and would not be lost on Orthodox Judaism in today's world.

Sure. In rabbinic tradition, the Shekinah was still around after the Temple's destruction:

Rab Sheshet (c. 300) was blind, and could not perceive when the Shekinah appeared in the Shaf we-Yatib synagogue of Nehardea, where it rested when it was not in the synagogue at Huzal. In the former synagogue Samuel and Levi heard the sound of its approach and fled (Meg. 29a).
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13537-shekinah

 

[Rakovsky]

Onycha is still used today, I think there may be more to understand by discovering how it is prepared elsewhere; is treatment necessary, what is produced by the action of alkaline.

The crux at this point seems to be understanding if an animal of abonimation is able to be rendered pure enough to be used in ceremony. My superficial glance at the culture's history seems to indicate that what is or isn't permissible has changed through time along with the meaning/definition of their written text.

For the incense project at hand I think some expérimentation would be best if one searches for an appreciable outcome, understanding the ancient recipe is a greater adventure that could possibly take longer than a lifetime to discover.

I would love to hear about any trials anyone performs with the onycha shells, treating them or creating a fragrant product.

Dear Matty,

Ummu Khalisa Enterprise is a blender in Nigeria and has a video about preparing Opercula. Its owner writes:

Farce or opercula has long been used as an exquisite incense material. They are first washed with an alkali solution(I used detergent) and then treated with alcohol, vinegar, and water.

facebook.com/share/v/1a95pGE9B9

Khalyaan Perfumes is in Nigeria and has a video on it too:

2.1K views | BHS: making of luxury dollar dufra❤️ Making of dollar farce (the most expensive) turarenwuta is so hectic, from boiling the onycha with potash to washing it with brush & detergent, then drying and frying. The final production stage is

BHS: making of luxury dollar dufra❤️ Making of dollar farce (the most expensive) turarenwuta is so hectic, from boiling the onycha with potash to washing it with brush & detergent, then drying and...

www.facebook.com

Treatment is necessary to get rid of the toxins that would be released into the air if burned untreated.

For the issue of whether the Israelites could use products of ritually unclean animal like shellfish ceremonially, please see Rabbi Navon's writing on Tekhelet here:

Abstract
Following the vast amount of evidence supporting the identification of the Murex trunculus snail as the hillazon shel tekhelet, the question has been raised as to whether a mollusk could be considered the ancient source of tekhelet, given that it is not kosher to eat.

https://www.tekhelet.com/pdf/Mutar_Beficha.pdf

 

[Matty]

The tekhelet pdf article was confusing to read, I'm to understand that "The law of muttar be-fikha requires ritual objects to be made from a kosher species, without regard for the permissibility of the final substance." but at the same time exceptions are made.

 

[Matty]

@Rakovsky are you rako17 on Reditt?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Incense/comments/1dp4rfv

 

[Rakovsky]

@Rakovsky are you rako17 on Reditt?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Incense/comments/1dp4rfv

That's right.
Reddit and Ouddict are both good communities and resources.
All the best.

 

[Matty]

@Rakovsky you are very passionate about this subject and seem to have found nearly all explanations available on the internet 🙂

 

[Rakovsky]

The tekhelet pdf article was confusing to read, I'm to understand that "The law of muttar be-fikha requires ritual objects to be made from a kosher species, without regard for the permissibility of the final substance." but at the same time exceptions are made.

Matty,

The short answer is that Rabbi Navon's overall goal in his essay is to answer how tekheleth could be allowed if it comes from an unclean animal. So he looks at examples where other ritual materials come from unclean animals. His basic conclusion is that one can use materials from those animals when they are needed to perform a mitzvot, a divine command or Torah work.

The longer answer is that in the passage that you are asking about, Rabbi Navon deals with "The law of muttar be-fikha", meaning "allowed in your mouth." This law addresses which materials are allowed.R. Navon summarizes it this way: "Muttar be-fikha requires a kosher species – without exception."

Here, Rabbi Navon tries to understand how silk could be allowed for sewing Torah scrolls, since it comes from unclean animals.

Some people made "the argument that the law of muttar be-fikha applies to the final product, without concern for the source species". But Rabbi Navon dismisses their argument, noting that "Muttar be-fikha requires a kosher species – without exception."

Or to rephrase the issue, some people said that the reason that silk was OK was because supposedly the ban only deals with final products (eg. silk, seashell dye, bacon, horns), not with the animals that they came from. And Rabbi Navon's answer to them is that No, the "Muttar be-fika" law deals with the species too and this law demands that materials come from a kosher source (eg. not worms, shellfish, pigs, nor elephants).

Rabbi Navon phrases his answer as: "The law of muttar be-fikha requires ritual objects to be made from a kosher species, without regard for the permissibility of the final substance."

So Rabbi Navon's suggestion is that you can use certain non-kosher materials in special cases (eg. silk for repairing Torah scrolls, seashell dye for prayer shawls) because they are needed for mitzvot, and not because of the mistaken idea that the law never addresses the issue of the materials' source.

Does that help?

 

[Matty]

Thank-you, yes that's a bit easier to understand.