Kyara/Kynam: IS IT REALLY OUD?

[Joe King]

So JK is lying about the sinking grade Black Kyara wood he is selling as well as Ensar is lying about the Vietnamese Red Kyara and Kevin is lying about the Vietnamese Green/White Kyara that he is currently selling for 700 per gram that he says is from true wild material? I find it funny how you were selling Kevin's cultivated Chinese Kyara for a nice hefty 120 mark up.

I really don't care what people do and how they mark up the products they sell but for overall the reason i found Agarwood so special was the fact that finding a tree in the wild that is sick of NATURAL cause not sliced injected or nailed by man is such a awesome awe recognition of the Unseen Made Seen. A true gift we respect and bless all who come in contact with that lingering presence in the air or the aura surrounding the structure we call the body.

Peace and love.

Excellent first post John

 

[Woodland Note]

Hmm, the problem I see with laboratory tests is that... What really a biochemical laboratory can prove other than there is some number of certain aromachemicals present in a piece of wood and the percentages? Perhaps some Asian universities which are familiar with agarwood might be able to conclude the specie and perhaps the age of the material. But other than that... Something tells me that there is no laboratory that can conclude (as a fact) if it’s kinam/kyara or if it is not.
In order to conclude such things, a given laboratory scientist would need to have a previous experience with such rare material, and ideally carry a research about this subject. How many have it/do it? If any...
I might be wrong but somehow I don’t think there are any kinam/kyara labs here and there... But I’m guessing that experts like KyaraZen or Ensar could conclude that , because they have devoted a good share of their life to this particular subject, and they have previous experiences with those rare materials. Please correct me if I’m wrong. I know nothing about this subject, just following the logic.

 

[John]

Excellent first post John

My brother Joe i thank you and hope all are well in health and safe in the lands they dwell.

 

[Tony Li]

1- first picture for a fresh (newly planted kinam plantation in Vietnam)
2- second picture for a fresh 1 year old kinam chip this is the minimum it takes to start producing anything this is not usually used or sold but simply to elaborate and educate. (you can see clearly the green edges and the wood is still very wet in a way not dry not dark and not anything like incense grade).
3- third picture for 1.5 or 2 years chips from a kinam plantation this is the minimum that can be used for burning or incense it is considered the lowest grade. you can see it's pretty light color and the wood veins are still there available and obvious to the eye additionally it smells more woody than it smells like kinam.
4- fourth picture this is for a 3 years old or (3 plus) piece of kinam and you can see that there are less veins in it it is heavier and more solid in texture and you can actually smell some kinam in it (by saying smell I mean smelling the wood without burning it because kinam will always smell as a wood by itself unlike many other kinds of wood that must be burned to get the smell).
5- fifth picture is for a 5 years old middle trunk piece that is almost all black in color it is heavy and you can clearly smell the kinam notes out of it. it is also much darker and more solid in texture solid not in the sense that it is wood solid but incense wood solid this mean it is solid but when broken it tends to break in with residue just like most old incense wood and not like a wood branch or a fresh wood.
6- this is the inside or side texture and color of the 5 years old plus wood you can see it's pretty dark and full and when cleaned it's pretty nice.
7- finally this is a 10 years or 10 plus piece of kinam that is called royal or king kinam and this is to me the nearest to can get from wild kinam it is not wild as everything I mentioned here is from plantations) but this is almost identical to the wild kinam in profile and it is heavenly in both smell and quality. this is usually used to make bracelets and necklaces and if you are wondering about the price so just you know and don't get taken by any of the new kinam/Kyara hypes this piece by itself is in market price in Vietnam for about 50 k (50000 usd) after it's cut cleaned and made into a bracelet or necklace it goes for around 60 to 70k ( 60000 to 70000 usd). and it is not easy to find and when it's found/made it's almost always sold very quickly and you may wonder who would buy a wood bracelet for 70k, trust me many will and they do. so next time someone throws the wild kinam parabola on you for something for couple thousand dollars be certain that it is not kinam.
I hope this was helpful and informative for everyone here. please forgive me for any errors or mistakes in writings I'm using a new device without typing correction.
and as always have a wonderful olfactorial day!

The fifth picture and the sixth picture are wild, not cultivated, cause they are close-grained and big sizes. The wild kinam is more close-grained than cultivated kinam, cause cultivated kinam trees grow fast in the plantation with enough manure and water. Regarding the size of cultivated kinam, according to our experience, if you would like get the size as big as the fifth and sixth picture, the trunk of the cultivated trees need to be big enough, for now, the grafting trees are all young, even for the mother kinam tree, the trunk is small also, the mother kinam tree was transplanted from forest by hunters, it was small, when it grow up a little bit, then be resell, need to transplant again, when graft start, the branch of the mother kyara tree need to be cut frequently for graft, so there is no any cultivated kinam with that big size so far.

 

[Dean]

So JK is lying about the sinking grade Black Kyara wood he is selling as well as Ensar is lying about the Vietnamese Red Kyara and Kevin is lying about the Vietnamese Green/White Kyara that he is currently selling for 700 per gram that he says is from true wild material? I find it funny how you were selling Kevin's cultivated Chinese Kyara for a nice hefty 120 mark up.

I really don't care what people do and how they mark up the products they sell but for overall the reason i found Agarwood so special was the fact that finding a tree in the wild that is sick of NATURAL cause not sliced injected or nailed by man is such a awesome awe recognition of the Unseen Made Seen. A true gift we respect and bless all who come in contact with that lingering presence in the air or the aura surrounding the structure we call the body.

Peace and love.

Who is Kevin and where can I find his products? Curious about this green/white Kinam

 

[EJayB]

Kevin is an eBay seller who sells from his farm and is a very nice guy. Look for kinam on eBay or hit me up and I can send you some. I sell it slightly cheaper then eBay so if interested let me know. I have green small pieces and yellow shavings available,
Really trying to get a site up soon to make things easier for Olefaktory Customers
I won’t take as long as scent legends I promise!!

 

[Andrew Salkin]

 

[Alex]

Excellent first post John

Good day to you all, hope you all guys and members of this forum are all safe and healthy in the current hard time that we are all facing all around the world.


hope you are enjoying your best perfumes and oud and exploring more beautiful scents.


I noticed that this discussion is still going and just wanted to respectfully re-post the post and friendly challenge that I have posted here about 6 months ago. (which we haven't got anyone yet to win it!)


in addition to the details, facts and pictures that I have provided here in my many previous posts and believe some members were very appreciative to it and to the fact that not everything that get listed as something is truly that thing and in the current times statements like "wild" and "no man interference" can easily be proven or disprove by simple lab tests. like the one I have presented for free for everyone here about "the cultivated Vietnamese kinam wood". and that we should doubt everyone and everything until we get a prove or an evidence and no matter how old, respectful or knowledgeable a house or a seller is we shouldn't take their words and statements and believe it blindly, and this is coming from a member of a 300 years old perfume house. no, we are not an exception and if we make a statement of a claim we should prove it and back it up.


if the last few months out of curiosity and professional interest we have done many lap tests for some of the famous and well known vendors and companies many of which members of this forum mentioned and talked about and the findings were very interesting, of course we do respect the companies and the vendors and their privacy and work and we will not publish or disclose such details on the forum here but I just wanted to bring everyone attention to the fact that, we will publish the lab tests of every new line we will be coming up with and make it public (we do have a policy to lab test Every single oil and new line no matter if it’s a collection/inherited or personally/newly made by us, we don't publish all the tests simply because in many cases in the past it made it easier for some copy cats or replicating small shops to replicate some of our work" , even though this may make it easier for many to "try" to make similar oils and products to what we make we believe that full transparency and direct presentation is the way so every new line will be "lab tested and authenticated by a top USA lab both certified and signed by a chemist or certified lab technician and published". and we wanted to take this opportunity to invite everyone on this forum and the members of it and the vendors and the sellers and the authority figures and everyone else to follow the leads of The Perfumist, by making and publishing lab test for their oils and incense and products. this is not to doubt or accuse anyone but to simply make the authentic and respectful houses and makers stand aside from the copycats or the want to be perfumists or the people who may try to take advantage of others by selling things that are not what they say.


finally here is my post again being updated and relisted, and I heard some people talk about the different ways of making incense and tricks to effect the smoke behavior and the way it burn and trust me as a member of a 300 years old perfume house that's been making, sourcing and selling incense we still keep this challenge open. so if "you" or anyone you know think that you can make or replicate a wood incense that is burning with green line of smoke going straight in a horizontal line for one meter with greenish color (as mentioned in rozi book and other books). you still get 10000 USD.


here is my post again just in case some are interested in contacting any of the authority figures, sellers, vendors, companies, or authority figures (keeping in mind that as a 300 years old perfume house we don't believe in any authority figures as our only authority figures are solid scientifically documented facts and lab tests" and we believe that how it should be for everyone. best regards



THIS IS AN OPEN CHALLENGE WITH NO TIME OR PLACE RESTRICTION TO ANYONE AND EVERYONE WHO IS SELLING OFFERING AND LISTING WHAT THEY THINK OR CALL "WILD KINAM". TO PROVE THAT IT IS WILD KINAM THROUGH ANY SCIENTIFIC MEAN
INCLUDING WHAT I HAVE REFERENCED AND LISTED:
1- an academically acceptableness lab test (from a well known lab with authentication and lab name and reference and signatures stating the this is 100% wild and it doesn't include any of the material or substances used in cultivation or harvesting which all experts knows it)
2- record a kinam wood burning with the smoke going straight in a horizontal line for one meter with greenish color (as mentioned in rozi book and other books)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I leave this challenge open for anyone and everyone any time, anywhere and I hope everyone on this forum can share it and ask the sellers, consultants and companies or "authority figures!" they believe in if they can fulfill this challenge.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
if this challenge fulfilled by anyone I won't only shut up forever, apologize to everyone on this forum and, never talk about kinam again but I will personally give 10k USD to anyone who fulfill this challenge. and everyone who read this post is a witness.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[EJayB]

Alex! Are you the perfumest

 

[Mr.P]

My question is, why do you believe the smoke from wild kyara will somehow affect the air turbulence in a room or the distance over which a rising plume of smoke will remain laminar? I have no comment on whether wild kyara exists or not - no doubt it is either absent or exceedingly rare. But your smoke test - I am curious about it because it seems illogical!

Anyone have any thoughts on the physics of this?

 

[Andrew Salkin]

My question is, why do you believe the smoke from wild kyara will somehow affect the air turbulence in a room or the distance over which a rising plume of smoke will remain laminar? I have no comment on whether wild kyara exists or not - no doubt it is either absent or exceedingly rare. But your smoke test - I am curious about it because it seems illogical!

Anyone have any thoughts on the physics of this?

Yeah - too many variables in his experiment, huh?

 

[EJayB]

I went back and read old post! Alex you are the perfumest! You sold me a fake oud! And some totally bunk sandalwood oil!
Such garbage!
The oud was so bad it gave me a headache and the shirt I was wearing had to be thrown away!
totally synthetic!
Shame on you !!

 

[Andrew Salkin]

Good day to you all, hope you all guys and members of this forum are all safe and healthy in the current hard time that we are all facing all around the world.


hope you are enjoying your best perfumes and oud and exploring more beautiful scents.


I noticed that this discussion is still going and just wanted to respectfully re-post the post and friendly challenge that I have posted here about 6 months ago. (which we haven't got anyone yet to win it!)


in addition to the details, facts and pictures that I have provided here in my many previous posts and believe some members were very appreciative to it and to the fact that not everything that get listed as something is truly that thing and in the current times statements like "wild" and "no man interference" can easily be proven or disprove by simple lab tests. like the one I have presented for free for everyone here about "the cultivated Vietnamese kinam wood". and that we should doubt everyone and everything until we get a prove or an evidence and no matter how old, respectful or knowledgeable a house or a seller is we shouldn't take their words and statements and believe it blindly, and this is coming from a member of a 300 years old perfume house. no, we are not an exception and if we make a statement of a claim we should prove it and back it up.


if the last few months out of curiosity and professional interest we have done many lap tests for some of the famous and well known vendors and companies many of which members of this forum mentioned and talked about and the findings were very interesting, of course we do respect the companies and the vendors and their privacy and work and we will not publish or disclose such details on the forum here but I just wanted to bring everyone attention to the fact that, we will publish the lab tests of every new line we will be coming up with and make it public (we do have a policy to lab test Every single oil and new line no matter if it’s a collection/inherited or personally/newly made by us, we don't publish all the tests simply because in many cases in the past it made it easier for some copy cats or replicating small shops to replicate some of our work" , even though this may make it easier for many to "try" to make similar oils and products to what we make we believe that full transparency and direct presentation is the way so every new line will be "lab tested and authenticated by a top USA lab both certified and signed by a chemist or certified lab technician and published". and we wanted to take this opportunity to invite everyone on this forum and the members of it and the vendors and the sellers and the authority figures and everyone else to follow the leads of The Perfumist, by making and publishing lab test for their oils and incense and products. this is not to doubt or accuse anyone but to simply make the authentic and respectful houses and makers stand aside from the copycats or the want to be perfumists or the people who may try to take advantage of others by selling things that are not what they say.


finally here is my post again being updated and relisted, and I heard some people talk about the different ways of making incense and tricks to effect the smoke behavior and the way it burn and trust me as a member of a 300 years old perfume house that's been making, sourcing and selling incense we still keep this challenge open. so if "you" or anyone you know think that you can make or replicate a wood incense that is burning with green line of smoke going straight in a horizontal line for one meter with greenish color (as mentioned in rozi book and other books). you still get 10000 USD.


here is my post again just in case some are interested in contacting any of the authority figures, sellers, vendors, companies, or authority figures (keeping in mind that as a 300 years old perfume house we don't believe in any authority figures as our only authority figures are solid scientifically documented facts and lab tests" and we believe that how it should be for everyone. best regards



THIS IS AN OPEN CHALLENGE WITH NO TIME OR PLACE RESTRICTION TO ANYONE AND EVERYONE WHO IS SELLING OFFERING AND LISTING WHAT THEY THINK OR CALL "WILD KINAM". TO PROVE THAT IT IS WILD KINAM THROUGH ANY SCIENTIFIC MEAN
INCLUDING WHAT I HAVE REFERENCED AND LISTED:
1- an academically acceptableness lab test (from a well known lab with authentication and lab name and reference and signatures stating the this is 100% wild and it doesn't include any of the material or substances used in cultivation or harvesting which all experts knows it)
2- record a kinam wood burning with the smoke going straight in a horizontal line for one meter with greenish color (as mentioned in rozi book and other books)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I leave this challenge open for anyone and everyone any time, anywhere and I hope everyone on this forum can share it and ask the sellers, consultants and companies or "authority figures!" they believe in if they can fulfill this challenge.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
if this challenge fulfilled by anyone I won't only shut up forever, apologize to everyone on this forum and, never talk about kinam again but I will personally give 10k USD to anyone who fulfill this challenge. and everyone who read this post is a witness.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You posted the same thing 2x fyi. Also - huh?

The only perfume house I know of that is 300 years old might be like Creed? Idk any others...

Either way, not sure you know your audience all that well. The vendors here arent going to Shell out thousands for lab tests to participate in your experiment. We all trust that the vendors here have been verified - no one here is maliciously selling fake or adulterated wares. If they did, they wouldn't be here very long.

Also, ain't no one got a vacuum sealed room to test your smoke theory.

Maybe I missed this part from a prior thread, but who are you again?

 

[Alex]

I went back and read old post! Alex you are the perfumest! You sold me a fake oud! And some totally bunk sandalwood oil!
Such garbage!
The oud was so bad it gave me a headache and the shirt I was wearing had to be thrown away!
totally synthetic!
Shame on you !!

Great day to you,

My name is Alex Philip I'm the manager of the house of the perfumist yes. I'm not a perfumist the house perfumist is Mr. Ali Attar.

May I get your name and order number please and what kind of Oud you purchased?

May I ask how did you come to the conclusion that it is fake Oud? what exactly do you mean by fake Oud, synthetic or what?

we sell samplers and offer 100% money back on all our samplers this is clearly listed on our site, if you bought the samples and you didn't' like it for any reason you simple return it and get your money back. authentic attars and oud oils are not for everyone that's why we offer samples.

additionally we offer three times your money back if proven that any of our oils are synthetic or not what we claim it is. so kindly provide your prove here or on any of our communication channels and I will give you back three times your money if you can prove that.

Finally each and Evey order is sent with a hand signed certificate that it is authentic, pure, natural and exclusive this is not only commercial and ethical liability but legal liability also.
The sandalwood oil was one of our top sellers it was totally sold-out and we didn't make it again because we couldn't get to the quality of the first batch which over 20 independent influences and reviewer talked about and it had one of the highest percentages of β-santalol you can possible get in a perfume oil.

I personally used that one for months, received many compliments about it, I also personally done the lab test for that one. over 100 customer who the majority of are collectors and have good experience in attar and authentic oils described it as the best they have even smelled. the feed backs and order counts are still present.

not necessarily Evey oil that gives you a headache is bad, it is possible for many people to get a headache from diluted perfume of alcoholic perfumes, is an oil no matter what is it gives you a headache this doesn't necessarily mean it is synthetic.

I think you are even mistaken or no being accurate, and to prove me wrong I hope you present your evidence here. as I'm sure many will like to see it I'm the first one.
regards

 

[EJayB]

Sandalwood is not a perfume oil

 

[EJayB]

This is a photo of the oil I received! Totally synthetic!! I offer a totally free sample to anyone willing to have a headache
Dear Alex I am a regular member
a known distiller
and a resident artist here on Ouddict.
What you sold me was what I use as a benchmark for fake /adulterated / synthetic oud

 

[EJayB]

Samples anyone?

 

[Dean]

This is too much a pissing match... can we just close this off finally? Thread is completely unnecessary and uncalled for LOL

 

[Alex]

You posted the same thing 2x fyi. Also - huh?

The only perfume house I know of that is 300 years old might be like Creed? Idk any others...

Either way, not sure you know your audience all that well. The vendors here arent going to Shell out thousands for lab tests to participate in your experiment. We all trust that the vendors here have been verified - no one here is maliciously selling fake or adulterated wares. If they did, they wouldn't be here very long.

Also, ain't no one got a vacuum sealed room to test your smoke theory.

Maybe I missed this part from a prior thread, but who are you again?

You posted the same thing 2x fyi. Also - huh?

- My apology about that, I'm trying to reply to multiple posts so I may post it twice, I think that's find as I'm sure it will be just a reminder.

The only perfume house I know of that is 300 years old might be like Creed? Idk any others...

- Not to say you are wrong or anything, but there are many older than creed, and I'm not talking about our house. Guerlain for example is documented way before creed, actually if you do your search you will find that creed is a tailoring house and not a perfume house as a start (but that is another subject). I don't expect you to know us at all as for 300 years we kept a clientele of kings, presidents and royalties. we didn't offer or sell to the public.


Either way, not sure you know your audience all that well. The vendors here arent going to Shell out thousands for lab tests to participate in your experiment. We all trust that the vendors here have been verified - no one here is maliciously selling fake or adulterated wares. If they did, they wouldn't be here very long.

- if you don't mind me asking who are you? are you a vendor? a seller or a company owner ? are you a perfumist ? I'm not sure but will ask anyway, don't you think if the vendors are making claims of thousands of dollars, offering thousands of dollar oils, and saying that their work worth thousands of dollars should at least offer few hundred dollars for lab tests. are you saying that all the vendors here manufacture the oils from A to Z point with no sourcing or interaction? if they are this is million dollar process so a lab test is nothing. id they are not and like most vendors they are sourcing or using third parties that I thing they should test what they are getting? I thing the customers deserve to know what they are buying ? actually with the current situation it is proven not only ethical and good business practice to test your products but necessary, how can you guarantee an oils or not polluted or contaminated before you use it ? specially with oud and other oils usually used directly on the skin ?
you are saying " We all trust that the vendors here have been verified" who do you mean by "we" I think this forum have hundreds of people do you speak on their behalf or represent all of them ? and what do you mean by "verified" please explain this verification method if there is one. many people on this forum didn't even know that cultivated kinam exists when I posted the evidence everyone was shocked, so how do you say "no one" are you specking on behalf of everyone on this forum if not please say "this is my personal opinion" so you look objective.

Also, ain't no one got a vacuum sealed room to test your smoke theory.

- were did you drought the vacuum sealed room idea from? what is my smoky theory ? this is what mentioned by the most respectful book in the world about agar wood and two books that are considered the reference for old world incense wood this is in "rozi book / agarwood and the other references are there on my post" do you know those books? have you read those books or are you are simply talking based on your opinion?

Maybe I missed this part from a prior thread, but who are you again?

- I think you missed many things not just this part, my name is Alex Philip I'm the manager of the house that bespoke the personal perfumes for three sultans. but with all respect I still don't know who are you?

regards

 

[Alex]

View attachment 12019 This is a photo of the oil I received! Totally synthetic!! I offer a totally free sample to anyone willing to have a headache
Dear Alex I am a regular member
a known distiller
and a resident artist here on Ouddict.
What you sold me was what I use as a benchmark for fake /adulterated / synthetic oud

1- what is your order number? what is the name of the oil you received or bought? I asked you for information an you posted a picture.
2- how did you know it is synthetic? lab test what kind of test?
3- we sell samples on our site and we offer 100% money back on it, why you didn't try the samples first if some oils give you a headache?
4- you didn't try the samples, you bought it, it gave you a headache, and you think it is synthetic why you didn't contact us?
5- again a headache from an oil doesn't mean it is synthetic you keep saying it gives me a headache honestly this doesn't make you sound like someone who knows much about this subject, alcoholic perfumes are 90% synthetic it doesn't mean it will give everyone a headache, the purest chili or peppermint or alum oil will give anyone a headache not only a headache but eye tearing and sometimes heavy breathing when it is 100% pure, so if something give you a headache it doesn't mean it is synthetic I hope you understand that!
5- I'm glad you are a regular member, but with all do respect this is not a prove of evidence of anything, additionally if you are a regular member why didn't you contact us before?
6- if you are a known distiller I think you should've been more objective about your assumption or conclusions, in what ways you have tested it? why you haven't tried the samplers first? why you haven't contacted us when you got the oils?
7- with all respect I'm not sure what a "resident artist" as we use PHD chemist and lab technicians from top USA labs sign their names and credentials on our tests and when we distill an oil our house chemist signed his name on it before it is sealed and shipped we are a registered USA company cosmetic manufacturer and international trademark based in Houston Texas we can't import materials or oils without out certificate of origin and lab test.
8- check our lab tests it's public for all our testing and we have PHD in house chemist to check all work.

with all that mentioned, and the at most respect to you, to your knowledge and your opinion, I thing it is little weird that you are a distiller and an expert in this field who bought something to try with out getting samples, then try it and hated it as you say and didn't even contact the seller, didn't tried to return it or even asked us as I could've sent you the lab check for it, and them right after I make a post here you accuse us of selling synthetic oils with no prove no evidence.

1- Evey oils comes with a hand signed note that it is authentic and pure and 100% natural or 3 times your money back this is not only commercial liability but legal liability.
2- knowing that in the last two years we had over 1250 order ( I can post the total orders sum) from all over the world with over 10 international cosmetic and beauty suppliers using our oils on regular bases
3- over 7 aromatic therapy center using some of our oils for aroma therapy specifically the sandalwood wood you mentioned
4- over 13 world renown expert and collector of oud and attar who many of then are chemists them self
I find it little strange that you are the first person who make such claim and say you are a distiller and expert but yet provide any prove or evidence.

Alex