MFH - Experiments & Materials

[MaxFromHolland]

Tibetan project #2

Backbone
Frankincense Frereana, Somalia 30%
Guaiacwood 15%
Prachin oud, Laddawan 10%

Character
Bergamot Risso, Reggio di Calabria, Italy 12,5%
Bay berry, Türkiye 10%

Bridges
Oakmoss Complete, MFH 15%
Styrax Benzoin, Indonesia 2,5%

Accents
Cipres, Italian 2,5%
Black pepper, Madagascar 2,5%

I've replaced the red cedar with guaiac for a much rounder wood and to support the floral element and enhance the oud.

Think it needs to sit on the shelf quite a while before i can judge the profile. But for a first impression i'm rather pleased. In a followup i try write down what i've been trying to do here.

Aside 🙂 Just swiped some guaiac neat while it was liquid, such amazing material 😋

Don't know how to write a cohesive story about the recent experiments, but can share notes fwiw..

Found that the oud + cedar had a very narrow sweetspot. Don't know how that would change during maturing but i felt risk of losing that bit of magic quickly in the blend.

Trying some guaiac felt like things coming together. The oud is neat not that great, with guaiac is becomes nice and soft, a mild smoky note appears.

Guaiac also has a honey note which matches with the floral notes of the bergamot.

The oud seems to enhance the honey note in the guaiac.

The bay has very fresh topnotes, but also a light fruit and green herbs, i dont have much green so felt like keeping it at a fairly large %.

I feel the bay also connects with the fruitnote in the oud.

Because of the bay i didnt feel i should use much cypress.

Just a small bit seems to lighten the frankincense a bit.

Used just enough styrax to add some vanilla sweet to the drydown and make everything a bit softer. I noticed in small % it works nice and softening, higher % smells nice but then it becomes a focal point ans somehow it reminds of cheap incense sticks, tried to avoid that happening.

The oakmoss adds to the green note but is is quite mild so i used a bit more. I can't smell the oakmoss in the blend but without the other notes are more seperate.

I keep scratching my head about how little citrus and how much floral i get from the bergamot in this blend. So i was happy to dose a bit larger.

Fresh notes of pepper are similar to those in the frankincense, causing the fresh to broaden and extend into the heart instead of disappearing quickly after the open.

The overall sequence is airy - green herbal - floral - resinous - honey - wood with some mystic note lingering around most of the time.

Painting fragrances on skin with glass dipstick is a nice way to experiment and learn, but it is nog easy to translate in the bottle, dont think this will be the first and last version 🙂

Oh and where #1 is quite loud and chaotic with notes come and go, #2 seems more calm, more foreground background than come and go. Like there still was something floral far in the drydown of yesterdays testpatch. Hope i managed to put that effect in the bottle.

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Patch
Last few hrs, little over 20ml 😋

Hydrosol still smelling gorgeous, should infuse the patch while traveling trough the oil layer (am using the glass insert that slows it down).

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Don't know how to write a cohesive story about the recent experiments, but can share notes fwiw..

Found that the oud + cedar had a very narrow sweetspot. Don't know how that would change during maturing but i felt risk of losing that bit of magic quickly in the blend.

Trying some guaiac felt like things coming together. The oud is neat not that great, with guaiac is becomes nice and soft, a mild smoky note appears.

Guaiac also has a honey note which matches with the floral notes of the bergamot.

The oud seems to enhance the honey note in the guaiac.

The bay has very fresh topnotes, but also a light fruit and green herbs, i dont have much green so felt like keeping it at a fairly large %.

I feel the bay also connects with the fruitnote in the oud.

Because of the bay i didnt feel i should use much cypress.

Just a small bit seems to lighten the frankincense a bit.

Used just enough styrax to add some vanilla sweet to the drydown and make everything a bit softer. I noticed in small % it works nice and softening, higher % smells nice but then it becomes a focal point ans somehow it reminds of cheap incense sticks, tried to avoid that happening.

The oakmoss adds to the green note but is is quite mild so i used a bit more. I can't smell the oakmoss in the blend but without the other notes are more seperate.

I keep scratching my head about how little citrus and how much floral i get from the bergamot in this blend. So i was happy to dose a bit larger.

Fresh notes of pepper are similar to those in the frankincense, causing the fresh to broaden and extend into the heart instead of disappearing quickly after the open.

The overall sequence is airy - green herbal - floral - resinous - honey - wood with some mystic note lingering around most of the time.

Painting fragrances on skin with glass dipstick is a nice way to experiment and learn, but it is nog easy to translate in the bottle, dont think this will be the first and last version 🙂

Oh and where #1 is quite loud and chaotic with notes come and go, #2 seems more calm, more foreground background than come and go. Like there still was something floral far in the drydown of yesterdays testpatch. Hope i managed to put that effect in the bottle.

Think i want to up the madagascar pepper a bit. It has this radiant green that is like wiping the windows 🙂🫣

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Patch
Last few hrs, little over 20ml 😋View attachment 56430

Hydrosol still smelling gorgeous, should infuse the patch while traveling trough the oil layer (am using the glass insert that slows it down).

Just pulled it. First time a patch fresh out of the still smells nice on the skin. Bit green obviously but zero offnotes and after a few minutes sweet and creamy already. Bottle and forget for a year (challenge) 😋😋😋😋😋😋

I'm proud as a dog with 7 tails 😇

 

[Mr.P]

Just pulled it. First time a patch fresh out of the still smells nice on the skin. Bit green obviously but zero offnotes and after a few minutes sweet and creamy already. Bottle and forget for a year (challenge) 😋😋😋😋😋😋

I'm proud as a dog with 7 tails 😇

This is patchouli essential oil distilled from the dried herb?

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Yes, its sold dried and schredded.

 

[roflwaffle]

Last few hrs, little over 20ml 😋

deets? how much leaf did you start with for 20ml yield? how long of a distillation run? ive def seen dried patch leaves sold that seem interesting, but never thought to do the run, i imagine its much faster run than oud or sandal, so a few hour run for still a pinnacle of materials seems super interesting!

 

[MaxFromHolland]

deets? how much leaf did you start with for 20ml yield? how long of a distillation run? ive def seen dried patch leaves sold that seem interesting, but never thought to do the run, i imagine its much faster run than oud or sandal, so a few hour run for still a pinnacle of materials seems super interesting!

Not sure how to translate 'deets?' 🙂

It was 1 kilo dry weight. Top and heart took 7 hrs total, base 17 hrs with steamflow of 150 and 300 gr/hr respectively. Steam distillation.

 

[roflwaffle]

Not sure how to translate 'deets?' 🙂

It was 1 kilo dry weight. Top and heart took 7 hrs total, base 17 hrs with steamflow of 150 and 300 gr/hr respectively. Steam distillation.

Oh. Deets is slang for 'details please?'.

1kg for 20ml, not too bad, thanks

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Pine bark extract for the scent machine.
Can't move my home into the forest, but can bring the forest home 🙂

Talking forest, without knowing about my new 'honey hobby', my daughter brought a jar of chestnut honey from the Ticino kanton in Switzerland. If you ever thought about the concept of eating the scent of a forest, this must be it. It's beyond what i had imagined possible in terms of intensity of taste. But my own fault for shopping the obvious foods rather than curiously exploring..

Anyways it makes me wonder about chestnut in general, maybe a source of wonderful oils and extracts to be discovered by my poorly educated nose. Time to fix that.

 

[roflwaffle]

Not sure how to translate 'deets?' 🙂

It was 1 kilo dry weight. Top and heart took 7 hrs total, base 17 hrs with steamflow of 150 and 300 gr/hr respectively. Steam distillation.

Followup- where did you get your leaves? Grow them? Looks like Bulkaroma sells 1kg for $12, so $12 for 20g is already basically finished oil costs, so any benefits would be from grow your own, quality bump, or alternative cheap source. Sometimes it's not about the cost, but the ability to impart or create something custom, but it's also nice when the economics also line up 😉

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Pine bark extract for the scent machine.
Can't move my home into the forest, but can bring the forest home 🙂
View attachment 56442

Talking forest, without knowing about my new 'honey hobby', my daughter brought a jar of chestnut honey from the Ticino kanton in Switzerland. If you ever thought about the concept of eating the scent of a forest, this must be it. It's beyond what i had imagined possible in terms of intensity of taste. But my own fault for shopping the obvious foods rather than curiously exploring..

Anyways it makes me wonder about chestnut in general, maybe a source of wonderful oils and extracts to be discovered by my poorly educated nose. Time to fix that.

Little research tells me that the lice who produce the honeydew are highly selective aiming for the treesap, which isn't something i could do. I can however do an ethanol extract of the honey, utilizing the labour of lice & bees. That should separate the desired molecules from it's sticky but tasteful carrier.
Only q. is am i willing to sacrifice 50ml from the jar for this to obtain 1-2 g 'resinoid' or 5 ml IPM* concentrate? 🙂

*You may find me slowly shifting from jojoba to IPM for it seems a better material to do my tincture > oil thing, as IPM is miscible with ethanol, whatever is dissolved in the ethanol remains dissolved and just moves into the IPM. While with jojoba i get a kind of resinoid in oil thing that needs to macerate and be filtered afterwards. I don't mind that, but it may lose more precious molecules - that i do mind.

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Followup- where did you get your leaves? Grow them? Looks like Bulkaroma sells 1kg for $12, so $12 for 20g is already basically finished oil costs, so any benefits would be from grow your own, quality bump, or alternative cheap source. Sometimes it's not about the cost, but the ability to impart or create something custom, but it's also nice when the economics also line up 😉

I buy them from a local supplier of perfume raw materials. € 45 per kilo. My goto Sumatra patch is € 20 for 20ml and the coeur from Robertet is €35 for 20ml. So € 45 for a more creamy and sweet version, yes please.

 

[roflwaffle]

I buy them from a local supplier of perfume raw materials. € 45 per kilo. My goto Sumatra patch is € 20 for 20ml and the coeur from Robertet is €35 for 20ml. So € 45 for a more creamy and sweet version, yes please.

Right but you don't know it's creamier and sweet until the money is spent and the labor is added.

Bit of a gamble, but seems to have paid off. Ya figure that's from the source material, or the intentional process?

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Right but you don't know it's creamier and sweet until the money is spent and the labor is added.

Bit of a gamble, but seems to have paid off. Ya figure that's from the source material, or the intentional process?

When i bought first batch i was oh wow with the smell of the raw material. Distillation failed miserable, being complete novice and poor setup. Persistence pays (if you learn while trying😁), this was batch 4 and it now has same vibe as the raw material.
One could say the Intentional process is not ruining the raw material.🙂

Though i do apply a secret🤓trick: between condensor and receiver there is a insert with glastube that ends right at the surface of the liquid in the receiver. Condensate flows on wall of tube and slowly slides into the oil layer. So there's an much improved contact time between hydrosol and oil. The hydrosol becomes very fragrant with all the watersoluble molecules and the prolonged contact time with the oil in the receiver allows the oil to absorb some of that, which adds to the scent of the essential oil, becoming broader spectrum.

That not theoretical, tested it with jojoba in the receiver and a jar of cherries on syrup🙂 in the pot (with water). After 24 hrs i pulled jojoba with scent of the cherries and the syrup.

 

[roflwaffle]

When i bought first batch i was oh wow with the smell of the raw material. Distillation failed miserable, being complete novice and poor setup. Persistence pays (if you learn while trying😁), this was batch 4 and it now has same vibe as the raw material.
One could say the Intentional process is not ruining the raw material.🙂

Though i do apply a secret🤓trick: between condensor and receiver there is a insert with glastube that ends right at the surface of the liquid in the receiver. Condensate flows on wall of tube and slowly slides into the oil layer. So there's an much improved contact time between hydrosol and oil. The hydrosol becomes very fragrant with all the watersoluble molecules and the prolonged contact time with the oil in the receiver allows the oil to absorb some of that, which adds to the scent of the essential oil, becoming broader spectrum.

That not theoretical, tested it with jojoba in the receiver and a jar of cherries on syrup🙂 in the pot (with water). After 24 hrs i pulled jojoba with scent of the cherries and the syrup.

Yea! That's how a lot of oud or traditional attars are done. I have been curious if folks even run a condenser with that method or use it as a vapor heatsink of sorts, and keep vapor into liquid and the liquid is just the condensing thing (so your oils don't end up on walls of condenser, and yields increase). I suppose you could run a condenser, and just for the last few hours turn off condenser, so it'll help clear any stuck oils in the condenser, and it'll still liquify as it hits the oil layer

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Yea! That's how a lot of oud or traditional attars are done. I have been curious if folks even run a condenser with that method or use it as a vapor heatsink of sorts, and keep vapor into liquid and the liquid is just the condensing thing (so your oils don't end up on walls of condenser, and yields increase). I suppose you could run a condenser, and just for the last few hours turn off condenser, so it'll help clear any stuck oils in the condenser, and it'll still liquify as it hits the oil layer

Yes, i have considered that to mimic the deg bhapka: jacket a receiver to cool it and let the steam condensate on the surface. That be like my current tube x 1000's but on microscopic scale.
I don't know how much more effective that would be though, nor how hot the oil layer would become during a long run. Current method everything stays cool.

 

[roflwaffle]

Yes, i have considered that to mimic the deg bhapka: jacket a receiver to cool it and let the steam condensate on the surface. That be like my current tube x 1000's but on microscopic scale.
I don't know how much more effective that would be though, nor how hot the oil layer would become during a long run. Current method everything stays cool.

I'd think likely better results, as the extras would do the whole lithophilic thing in the oil. My understanding is that once it's condensate not much will actually go into the oil that wouldn't already be in it


I suppose if your theory holds and the oil benefits from more contact with the hydrosol then you could a/b test and shake the B sample with oil/hydrosol and see if the oil picks up anything more than the untouched A sample? Then let it separate back. Or Im missing something in why the extra contact with hydrosol helps for this post condensate case? It's super interesting though

 

[MaxFromHolland]

I'd think likely better results, as the extras would do the whole lithophilic thing in the oil. My understanding is that once it's condensate not much will actually go into the oil that wouldn't already be in it


I suppose if your theory holds and the oil benefits from more contact with the hydrosol then you could a/b test and shake the B sample with oil/hydrosol and see if the oil picks up anything more than the untouched A sample? Then let it separate back. Or Im missing something in why the extra contact with hydrosol helps for this post condensate case? It's super interesting though

That would work as it is simply liquid-liquid extraction.
But I now had 6 liter of hydrosol, loaded with molecules, seeping trough the oil. That not the same a shaking the receivers contents which is 250 ml hydrosol+oil.
In theory, one could filtrate the liquid from the still post distillation, put the 4 liter in a jerrycan + oil and shake it vividly a few times and then try to recover the oil again.

It's true that not much of the water-dissolved molecules migrate to the oil. But similar, a drip of water is not much on the scale of a bucket, yet you can fill that bucket overnight under a dripping faucet.

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Honey in ethanol, thermo-dynamic extraction (fancy for heat and shake🤫)