Oud Distillation

[tyson]

Sandalwood is very hard so it stands to reason that the finer you grind it into powder the more yeild . Usind a electic stone melanger i can take the sawdust of sandal and over 7 hours of gringing a sawdust and water mixture it gets to the point were you can see the resins starting to coat the machine a bit , this is what im looking for as i know is fully ground to its point of release , then iv been freezing and thawing the mix 3-4 time to even further seperate the molicules , just like how water and ice seperate stone over time.

 

[Oudamberlove]

Wouldn’t a good yield booster be to just add some neutral natural carrier oil into the pots, then shoot a video of all that luscious oil dripping into the collector

That’s why my main criteria is:

Is it PURE OUD???

 

[powdernose]

There are many ways to distill oil trapped as resin, it's not rocket science, you just gotta figure out how to un-trap it..

I think the problem lies in how things were worded when this issue first surfaced.
It appeared the claim was made that it is possible to distill resin back into oil. Which it is not.
And even if the claim was just improperly worded, it seems some have taken that interpretation to heart.

There's been so much information, misinformation, fantastical information, etc. that gets spread about distilling - and then folks come to me and ask for clarity - my response is always, "don't get lost in the details."

Just as I don't go to a restaurant and demand the chef to walk me through how my meal is cooked...I just choose to eat at places with exceptional food..

In that case, it might be better to inform, rather than let misinformation propagate.

Personally, I think that is a bad analogy.
When you you pick up a menu in a restaurant, every ingredient is listed.
And beyond that, when you order a specific cut or grade of meat, you expect to get exactly what you ordered.
If a chef tried to pass you ordinary sirloin steak on the plate instead of the select sourced tenderloin that was listed and ordered; upon finding out,
most people would react livid with anger.
Sure one might not ask if the steak was seared in an antique cast iron pan, or if it was instead seared in a stainless steel one,
but if the interest and curiosity existed, there is no harm in politely asking. Some chefs are surprisingly open about their process.
Furthermore, some chefs go out of their way to highlight secondary ingredients or processes. A chef might stress the fact that he is using traditionally churned butter from free range cows. Because he feels the quality makes a difference, because he wants to include his clientele in the story of the process.
Some details matter, and others less so. Some customers are interested and others could care less.
However, with regards to the first materials being used, I think the customer has every right to answers, the same way he has access to such details in any restaurant.

Sandalwood is very hard so it stands to reason that the finer you grind it into powder the more yeild . Usind a electic stone melanger i can take the sawdust of sandal and over 7 hours of gringing a sawdust and water mixture it gets to the point were you can see the resins starting to coat the machine a bit , this is what im looking for as i know is fully ground to its point of release , then iv been freezing and thawing the mix 3-4 time to even further seperate the molicules , just like how water and ice seperate stone over time.

Thank you for sharing your process.

 

[F4R1d0uX]

Wouldn’t a good yield booster be to just add some neutral natural carrier oil into the pots, then shoot a video of all that luscious oil dripping into the collector

That’s why my main criteria is:

Is it PURE OUD???

 

[Rename]

I think the problem lies in how things were worded when this issue first surfaced.
It appeared the claim was made that it is possible to distill resin back into oil. Which it is not.
And even if the claim was just improperly worded, it seems some have taken that interpretation to heart.



In that case, it might be better to inform, rather than let misinformation propagate.

Personally, I think that is a bad analogy.
When you you pick up a menu in a restaurant, every ingredient is listed.
And beyond that, when you order a specific cut or grade of meat, you expect to get exactly what you ordered.
If a chef tried to pass you ordinary sirloin steak on the plate instead of the select sourced tenderloin that was listed and ordered; upon finding out,
most people would react livid with anger.
Sure one might not ask if the steak was seared in an antique cast iron pan, or if it was instead seared in a stainless steel one,
but if the interest and curiosity existed, there is no harm in politely asking. Some chefs are surprisingly open about their process.
Furthermore, some chefs go out of their way to highlight secondary ingredients or processes. A chef might stress the fact that he is using traditionally churned butter from free range cows. Because he feels the quality makes a difference, because he wants to include his clientele in the story of the process.
Some details matter, and others less so. Some customers are interested and others could care less.
However, with regards to the first materials being used, I think the customer has every right to answers, the same way he has access to such details in any restaurant.



Thank you for sharing your process.

I hear ya amigo 🙂 Ironically - you've probed the point I'm trying to make. You're overthinking the analogy.

When you go to a restaurant with better food - the quality of the ingredients is higher and so is the skill with which it is cooked. Those are generally already givens as evidenced by the better food.

Just as when buying a painting - you're not paying for the cost of the canvas and paint. You're paying for the skill of the painter. You're paying for something unique. You're paying for something they found and provided access to that one normally might not have access to.

Part of what I don't like about this discussion is the emphasis on the cost of the raw materials. You're not paying just for the raw materials (hand smacks face)

I'll use a personal example.

I had a customer recently reach out wondering why the price of my Musk Rose Attar is higher than the price of any of the individual ingredients in the Attar. "Why are you charging some so much" was the gist of how I took the comment. And so I explained - part of what people here are getting isn't just a better product - it's an expression of the people providing the products. And as that relates to a person's skill - you're never going to get a complete straight answer because the complete straight answer is where the persons value lies. They are never going to reveal how exactly to do what they do.

A while back I had a contract with the Discovery Channel. They were working on putting together a show about Ambergris. Some of you may have heard about this and not realized that I was involved. I even spent some time out in LA with the producers and network execs.

Do you know why the show in large part never happened? It's because I was the only person that they could find that was really willing to talk to them. They only knew about the use in perfumery, but I brought to the table the medical and incense angles as well.

But no one would really openly talk to them - because it's in the details that these people involved in the trade make their living, and by giving away the details they forfeit their intellectual property.

I mention this because no one here is really going to fully open up and show how they produce their products. It's why I get so frustrated when people contact me asking these kinds of questions, in part because half the information they have is wrong. And it's from people right here that they get this wrong information, or they misinterpret what was said, or they just out right have crazy information that is terribly innaccurate.

Just like we started out with the analogy - sure, good restaurants use better ingredients - but the magic is found in the techniques of cooking. And I highly doubt anyone will get into the details upon which they stake their living.

"Don't get lost in the details my friends" 🙂

 

[Oudamberlove]

It seems all the distillers already know the yield boosting techniques, and us the consumers are kept in the dark. There even was a teaser video posted on FB showing bubbling water, but nothing was ever revealed. I don’t get what all the secrecy is about.

Okay, that’s just the left side of my brain talking.
The other side of my brain doesn’t really care😛

All I know is that the artisanal oud distillers and resellers in our Ouddict Niche are providing us with a good selection of yummy ouds to feast on

 

[tyson]

You can extract oil from agarwood resin , ill make a video later and show how its done , thre are hydro distilling the resin and dry distilling. Using alcohol to extra agarwood resin we can then reduce that down to only resin , give it a curing process to remove any traces of alcohol and then distill it , if done wih a dry still method we heat the resin and collect the first fraction this bubbles off in the dry still and when it goes flat the resin no more bubbles on low heat the process is stoped, this makes an oil of absolute purity, its the opposite of yeild it alchemy, lead to gold . the reduction and refinment of the very essence and soul of the agarwood. i would not even attempt this with lower grades of wood though you would need double super grade or higher . in a video ill try and show the 3 states of agar resin as i have come to learn it

 

[Rasoul Salehi]

I hear ya amigo 🙂 Ironically - you've probed the point I'm trying to make. You're overthinking the analogy.

When you go to a restaurant with better food - the quality of the ingredients is higher and so is the skill with which it is cooked. Those are generally already givens as evidenced by the better food.

Just as when buying a painting - you're not paying for the cost of the canvas and paint. You're paying for the skill of the painter. You're paying for something unique. You're paying for something they found and provided access to that one normally might not have access to.

Part of what I don't like about this discussion is the emphasis on the cost of the raw materials. You're not paying just for the raw materials (hand smacks face)

I'll use a personal example.

I had a customer recently reach out wondering why the price of my Musk Rose Attar is higher than the price of any of the individual ingredients in the Attar. "Why are you charging some so much" was the gist of how I took the comment. And so I explained - part of what people here are getting isn't just a better product - it's an expression of the people providing the products. And as that relates to a person's skill - you're never going to get a complete straight answer because the complete straight answer is where the persons value lies. They are never going to reveal how exactly to do what they do.

A while back I had a contract with the Discovery Channel. They were working on putting together a show about Ambergris. Some of you may have heard about this and not realized that I was involved. I even spent some time out in LA with the producers and network execs.

Do you know why the show in large part never happened? It's because I was the only person that they could find that was really willing to talk to them. They only knew about the use in perfumery, but I brought to the table the medical and incense angles as well.

But no one would really openly talk to them - because it's in the details that these people involved in the trade make their living, and by giving away the details they forfeit their intellectual property.

I mention this because no one here is really going to fully open up and show how they produce their products. It's why I get so frustrated when people contact me asking these kinds of questions, in part because half the information they have is wrong. And it's from people right here that they get this wrong information, or they misinterpret what was said, or they just out right have crazy information that is terribly innaccurate.

Just like we started out with the analogy - sure, good restaurants use better ingredients - but the magic is found in the techniques of cooking. And I highly doubt anyone will get into the details upon which they stake their living.

"Don't get lost in the details my friends" 🙂

I humbly couldn’t disagree more.
Let me share what goes on in my head and what I think also goes on in the head of at least a decent percentage of folks gathered here. We are NOT casual users of Oud. We are not casual steak eaters either. I wana know what Chicago steak or Pittsburg mean. Charcoal vs Infra red cooking. Sous vide vs pan fry finish in the oven. Dry aged vs wet aged meat. Seasoned or brined. Same in the world of hifi. The difference in staging harmonics dynamics of this vs that system. The warmtg or the cool high grew sounds of silk done tweeters vs aluminum or berrylium. Is the intellectual pleasures of behind the scene work that is a major part of the experience. Why I go to niche coffee roasters and participate in their cupping sessions. Same coffee beans roasted different ways. Taste the difference. Same coffee roast but different grind size. Different pressure in pulling the espresso etc. the process is highly enjoyable and satisfying. Just wearing the oil is not good enough for me. The detective work is fun and enjoyable. The correlating of the info and using deduction in hypothesizing how an oil is made and from where and what is part of the hobby. That’s the difference between a connoiseur or aficionado and others. It is this geeking out and being a serious and methodical student of Oud that provides ample pleasures. It is NOT just about the scent for me. Much like with our wines is not about what’s in the bottle but how it got there and what the process was like. The viticulture techniques that resulted in this or that aroma. The vinificstion techniques that made their mark etc. Who else thinks like I do? Or at least gets my drift?

 

[Rasoul Salehi]

It seems all the distillers already know the yield boosting techniques, and us the consumers are kept in the dark. There even was a teaser video posted on FB showing bubbling water, but nothing was ever revealed. I don’t get what all the secrecy is about.

Okay, that’s just the left side of my brain talking.
The other side of my brain doesn’t really care😛

All I know is that the artisanal oud distillers and resellers in our Ouddict Niche are providing us with a good selection of yummy ouds to feast on

Precisely. If is pretty much common knowledge then share it with us folks. In the process you may learn something yourself.

 

[Rai Munir]

Okay, that’s just the left side of my brain talking.

Please nourish this side of your brain exclusively. This left side talks right. 😉

I don’t get what all the secrecy is about.

Do you really think things are secrets? 😉

All I know is that the artisanal oud distillers and resellers in our Ouddict Niche are providing us with a good selection of yummy ouds to feast on

No doubt.

 

[F4R1d0uX]

Do you really think things are secrets? 😉

I was talking with an artisan earlier this day, we proceed differently and have different results, so there are at least 2 ways to do so, I know 2 other way that i dont apply so 4 ways, maybe others that I don't know so ...

Each one got his style and wants to keep it secret.
I think most important is to buy a nice oil at a nice price and for thoses who can, an unique oil at the price someone can afford.

What is to avoid are fairy tales like : I'm able to transform wood into oil that's why i'm able to distill for you a 1 million distillation, this is a way too much and can be questionned with legitimity.

I explain earlier the aim of using it, I garanty mine doesnt require any chemicals or other products than water this is all the details I can give.

 

[Joe King]

I humbly couldn’t disagree more.
Let me share what goes on in my head and what I think also goes on in the head of at least a decent percentage of folks gathered here. We are NOT casual users of Oud. We are not casual steak eaters either. I wana know what Chicago steak or Pittsburg mean. Charcoal vs Infra red cooking. Sous vide vs pan fry finish in the oven. Dry aged vs wet aged meat. Seasoned or brined. Same in the world of hifi. The difference in staging harmonics dynamics of this vs that system. The warmtg or the cool high grew sounds of silk done tweeters vs aluminum or berrylium. Is the intellectual pleasures of behind the scene work that is a major part of the experience. Why I go to niche coffee roasters and participate in their cupping sessions. Same coffee beans roasted different ways. Taste the difference. Same coffee roast but different grind size. Different pressure in pulling the espresso etc. the process is highly enjoyable and satisfying. Just wearing the oil is not good enough for me. The detective work is fun and enjoyable. The correlating of the info and using deduction in hypothesizing how an oil is made and from where and what is part of the hobby. That’s the difference between a connoiseur or aficionado and others. It is this geeking out and being a serious and methodical student of Oud that provides ample pleasures. It is NOT just about the scent for me. Much like with our wines is not about what’s in the bottle but how it got there and what the process was like. The viticulture techniques that resulted in this or that aroma. The vinificstion techniques that made their mark etc. Who else thinks like I do? Or at least gets my drift?

I also have a very curious mind, especially coming from a technical background, and I follow with interest this and other discussions about distillation.
But at the same time I do respect the distillers right to protect their livelihood and special techniques. In all the above examples of niche/specialist providers I am sure they will also never tell the full story, if they do then they will no longer have an edge over the competition . So I am happy to know 95% of the story and I can hypothesise about the other 5% as I also enjoy a little mystery.

 

[F4R1d0uX]

I also have a very curious mind, especially coming from a technical background, and I follow with interest this and other discussions about distillation.
But at the same time I do respect the distillers right to protect their livelihood and special techniques. In all the above examples of niche/specialist providers I am sure they will also never tell the full story, if they do then they will no longer have an edge over the competition . So I am happy to know 95% of the story and I can hypothesise about the other 5% as I also enjoy a little mystery.

Thank you for your understanding gentleman .

 

[tyson]

Im always happy to share what ive leared and be an open book to questions , as im always evolving my tech there is no need for me not to share everything as what im doing now will be out of date down the road . Service to others is the greatest gift we can give ourselfs. Although when it comes to contracts sometimes we do have to keep certain things to ourselfs , this is just biz and understandable.

 

[Rai Munir]

sure, good restaurants use better ingredients - but the magic is found in the techniques of cooking.

Let it be definite and specific: Sure, good artisans (surely) use better ingredients, if available to them- but the magic is certainly found in the techniques of cooking, now and forever.

It may lead to the conclusion that mostly it are tweaks that smell sweet.

 

[Rai Munir]

Im always happy to share what ive leared and be an open book to questions , as im always evolving my tech there is no need for me not to share everything as what im doing now will be out of date down the road . Service to others is the greatest gift we can give ourselfs. Although when it comes to contracts sometimes we do have to keep certain things to ourselfs , this is just biz and understandable.

That's it. Even if it is not a service to humanity, things are destined to come out of the stashes made up of either wood or brain cells. Sooner or later.

 

[Rasoul Salehi]

I also have a very curious mind, especially coming from a technical background, and I follow with interest this and other discussions about distillation.
But at the same time I do respect the distillers right to protect their livelihood and special techniques. In all the above examples of niche/specialist providers I am sure they will also never tell the full story, if they do then they will no longer have an edge over the competition . So I am happy to know 95% of the story and I can hypothesise about the other 5% as I also enjoy a little mystery.

Indeed. Not asking anything proprietary

 

[Ashfaque]

I also have a very curious mind, especially coming from a technical background, and I follow with interest this and other discussions about distillation.
But at the same time I do respect the distillers right to protect their livelihood and special techniques. In all the above examples of niche/specialist providers I am sure they will also never tell the full story, if they do then they will no longer have an edge over the competition . So I am happy to know 95% of the story and I can hypothesise about the other 5% as I also enjoy a little mystery.

+1
If I was a distiller/vendor, I wouldn't have shared so much information that some of you did! So thank you. 🙂

 

[Oudamberlove]

I garanty mine doesnt require any chemicals or other products than water this is all the details I can give

Excellent Brother!!!

I agree that the right to keep certain processes a secret, can be reserved by anyone. I respect that.

But on to the other side of the coin. This is an Ouddict Forum, comprised of some of the Most Elite users of Artisanal Oud. All aspects of Oud are discussed here. It is our passion to learn everything oud. No stone is left unturned. Calculators are out, pens are in hand, research of posts ensue, yet a balance is also struck amongst differing opinions and methods.
Okay.......I’m ranting now

 

[peter4ptv]

+1
If I was a distiller/vendor, I wouldn't have shared so much information that some of you did! So thank you. 🙂

Why?
Are the distillers/vendors afraid that the consumers are going to do distillation setups in their living room?
Some people can just wear oud and don’t care, some can get very passionate about and start asking questions about all that jazz.