Oud Distillation

[Al Shareef Oudh]

This caught my eye. I have some old bio Thais feel oud distilled - same wood, three different methods. One was a no-soak distillation, the other had maybe a month of soaking but I two different water types if I recall.

All were similar on one level but each was recognizably different from the others. The one that was not soaked, had a bit of a menthol note that reminded me of some Borneo oils, and is very pleasant.

These i think you might classify as relatively top heavy, and while they have aged well in the sense of slightly improving and softening of the top notes, they are basically unchanged and I would have thought they would settle and reveal some more oudy depths but it doesn’t seem to be going that way.

Have you seen some actually go bad, or just not acquire depth with age?

They don't go off, they just don't age well, they don't develop complexity, depth or longevity. In terms of a distiller and perfumer, it can be a painful experience, having waited 5-10-20 years to find nothing has happened, and in many instances as their tops settle, they don't have much else going for them.

 

[Rename]

They don't go off, they just don't age well, they don't develop complexity, depth or longevity. In terms of a distiller and perfumer, it can be a painful experience, having waited 5-10-20 years to find nothing has happened, and in many instances as their tops settle, they don't have much else going for them.

I usually use the example of aging a white wine. They don’t age well - losing complexity and sparkle with age. Reds on the other hand, develop more complexity over time. And usually the more tannic - the longer they can be aged, and the more depth and complexity.

The difference being the tannins and other additions from the inclusion of the skins.

 

[soulfoud]

I usually use the example of aging a white wine. They don’t age well - losing complexity and sparkle with age. Reds on the other hand, develop more complexity over time. And usually the more tannic - the longer they can be aged, and the more depth and complexity.

Sorry to get off track, but I gotta correct ya here. There are a ton of white wines that age extremely well. Reds might generally go longer, and fortified wines like port or madeira can go the longest, but plenty of whites are capable of improving for decades.

 

[Rename]

Sorry to get off track, but I gotta correct ya here. There are a ton of white wines that age extremely well. Reds might generally go longer, and fortified wines like port or madeira can go the longest, but plenty of whites are capable of improving for decades.

Of course - There’s always exceptions to the rule. I’m speaking in general terms.

Just like I’m sure there might be some nice, unfermented white wood oils floating around out there.

Just speaking in generalities. 🙏🏼

 

[Taesik Yun]

To get a great cup of coffee, you need to find the sweet spot of the extraction point by adjusting various variables.
And particle size is one of the most important variables that affect the flavor of a cup.

With that said, I got curious about how particle size affects in distillation of essential oils. And it seems there haven't been much of studies done on this particular topic.

What I could find with Google search is these.

1. Distillation of essential oils: An innovative technological approach focused on productivity, quality and sustainability
2. Effect of particle size and temperature variation on the yield of essential oil from lemon grass using steam distillation
3. Effect of plants particle size on the extraction of essential oils

in short, these studies say that the particle size doesn't play a huge roll in distillation. if I understood them correctly.

Over-extraction or under-extraction. It could be measured by inspecting specific molecules but often times, we don't always enjoy the flavor of "fully squeezed" concoctions.

So I think it's worth investigating how particle size affects the distillation of agarwood.
let me know how you think about this topic.

 

[Rename]

Most distillers will tell you that particle size and “pot packing” (too much material in a pot) definitely make a difference. Especially with woods.

Woods ground too small will become like sludge in a still. Too much fine powder may also end up in glassware, and may even make it over into the oil. We’ve all seen oils with wood particulate in it. That’s what that’s from.

Even when distilling herbs like lavender - usually they won’t be ground for this very reason.

Also makes a big difference in steam distillation, as material can become almost brick-like if the particulate is too fine, and steam won’t be able to pass through the material.

 

[Taesik Yun]

@RisingPhoenix that's very well explained. that happenes in coffee as well. too finely ground coffee can clog up and gets partially extracted, or end up in the cup. "right dosage" for the vessel size is really important.

 

[Oudh Analytics]

All the variables you may think of affect the final product in any extraction or distillation process using any technique for any raw material input. Particle size is no exception. To what extent the variable affects the final output depends on other parameters playing rules simultaneously. Moreover, the interaction is synergic. Capturing the extent of the impact is not so easy if the playing input variables are not key players in certain extraction/distillation system designs.

In hydrodistillation, if all other parameters are not changed, the smaller ground particulates of agarwood will give away the oil more quickly than larger particulates. If you do not remove the oil at regular intervals, the final oil quality after full exhaustion of the different particular-sized wood would be almost the same chemically in theory. Some distillers say that the longer the distillation time, the more internal molecular interaction may happen, and some specific molecules may change negatively in terms of olfactory sense. So, without a holistic experimental design, nothing could be said about the effect of particle size in either direction with confidence in traditional distillation.

But interestingly, in microwave-assisted distillation or extraction processes, which do not follow traditional heat transfer law (outside of the pot to the inside of the pot), the particle size plays a very distinctive role. In this case, the result may defy common sense. In Microwave, the bigger the particle size, the quicker the extraction time, and the smell is simply amazing (evidence from my own experimental design). If the particle size is smaller, it will take longer, and the chemical composition profile will change due to the microwave's longer residence time.

I can not recall any partial-size experiment for CO2 extraction. Still, I guess for CO2 extraction, it will follow common sense: the smaller the particle size, the quicker the extraction time and the same quality (as temperature has little rule to play).