Help me create (Beginner)

[Amberbreens]

Hello everyone,

so I'd use this thread for all my questions regarding attar-making.

I experimented a bit already by mixing some things - was not bad, but I think I don't have a good feeling for ratio yet.

I'd love to tell you what all I have and asked you to please give me some advice on what I blend together and how much.

From Apothecary's Garden:

Musk rat oil and tincture
Ambergris 10% tincture
Hyraceum absolu
Musk root absolue
Mastix chios oil
Storax oil (very thin)
Tonka tincture
Benzoin Sumatra absolutely
Benzoin siam absolutely
Bushman's candle tincture
Myrrh absolutely
Benzyl Benzoate


From Duftkumpels (Germany):
Patchouli Alhambra oil
Castoreum tincture
Iso e Super

From India
20 year old Mysore sandalwood oil

From here and there

Clary sage essential oil
Vanilla absolutely
Frangipani oil


I think that's it. I sadly don't have more ready to use ambergris, my macerations just started.

Can anyone give me advice on how to make a nice and slightly sweet attar from (some of) those ingredients? What would you do?

Also any recommendations on where to buy a small amount (1 ml wold be enough) ready to use deer musk oil or tincture would be much appreciated.

Best wishes
Amberbreens

 

[Amberbreens]

So I discovered a new favorite, of which I never expected to be so pleasant for my receptors: beeswax! I first got 1 ml of an abs and I'm really in love with it.

Any ideas on what it works well with? Is it better as a base or heart note?

Are there any recommended sellers (in here? On Etsy?) for good quality beeswax abs or eo?

Happy holidays
Amberbreens

 

[Mr.P]

So I discovered a new favorite, of which I never expected to be so pleasant for my receptors: beeswax! I first got 1 ml of an abs and I'm really in love with it.

Any ideas on what it works well with? Is it better as a base or heart note?

Are there any recommended sellers (in here? On Etsy?) for good quality beeswax abs or eo?

Happy holidays
Amberbreens

Perfumers Supply House used to have two different beeswax absolutes from major suppliers with good quality control and all that. I don't know where to find the best beeswax absolute though, and I'm sure that different batches are very different.

 

[Amberbreens]

Could anyone recommend me some floral that go well with NinjaRobs Mongolian and Siberian deer musk grains?? I don't want to waste them, they are so very precious to me, really awesome stuff.

I'd like to create something musky-powdery, for me, there always has to be some sweetness though.

I'd like to make 2 attars of these, one should also contain ambergris.

I don't have Oud at the moment, will get some in June.

In general- what florals are considered to be most powdery?

Greets
Breens

 

[Shiningrobes]

I think rose is the obvious classic here. But Jasmine? I feel like you couldn’t go wrong with either a sambac or grandiflora. Osmanthus and tuberose would be great in a blend containing musk but would probably be overkill if used directly with musk. Why not put the musk in your Mysore? To me Mysore, ambergris and musk is enough to fix all my life’s problems. You can’t really go wrong with sandalwood and musk. And depending on how strong you make it you can easily add that to other blends. Im a fan of low percentages of musk and ambergris as the ultimate transformers for anything they are added to.

 

[Mr.P]

Could anyone recommend me some floral that go well with NinjaRobs Mongolian and Siberian deer musk grains?? I don't want to waste them, they are so very precious to me, really awesome stuff.

I'd like to create something musky-powdery, for me, there always has to be some sweetness though.

I'd like to make 2 attars of these, one should also contain ambergris.

I don't have Oud at the moment, will get some in June.

In general- what florals are considered to be most powdery?

Greets
Breens

I'm looking at your last comment here and I'm wondering how powdery you were looking to get things. Orris has a powdery quality to me, as does bergamot.

 

[Shiningrobes]

Might I suggest sampling as well? It’s something I’ve been doing and still do to get an understanding of how precious materials work. Getting to experience things like musk and ambergris as used by different hands and a wide variety of tastes and preferences really helps me to understand not just what materials are, but what they can do. I would check out Mosafir Rai(rai munitions in here) and if you can afford it get his sampler set. It’s not something I’ve been able to do yet but he uses musk in abundance in a wide variety of materials. Mr. P’s comment about orris made me think of it because I know there is an orris/musk blend from Mosafir Rai. But I feel like most vendors have some iteration of musk in ____.

 

[Saudalhajri]

Could anyone recommend me some floral that go well with NinjaRobs Mongolian and Siberian deer musk grains?? I don't want to waste them, they are so very precious to me, really awesome stuff.

I'd like to create something musky-powdery, for me, there always has to be some sweetness though.

I'd like to make 2 attars of these, one should also contain ambergris.

I don't have Oud at the moment, will get some in June.

In general- what florals are considered to be most powdery?

Greets
Breens

Orris might be the most powdery. And rose damascene is a nice floral to how with musk.
But as others said it’s best to sample. Get your hands on the florals you want to use, say an ml each, and study them.

If you want a great powdery musk, check out @Rai Munir he has Orris musk which is amazing, try to get a sample of that too.

 

[smoke]

Greetings to you all. I am an absolute beginner and grateful to have found this site for i have countless questions and can see that i will find many answers here. i have likely hundreds of these pages to read thru yet would like to begin buying some scents to experiment with. Im seeing Apothecary Garden and Perfumers Supply House as places to start. I was looking at Nature in a Bottle as they had all the absolutes i wanted yet the prices-too good to be for real in sizes too big to manage, gave me a hard stop. A couple questions please, other suggestions for buying beginner oils, any good mukhallet/attar making books or guides, and lastly, i have never used forums before and dont know what it means to contact someone at @. So for @An Najwa or @Rai Munir, how do i find them individually. Gratefully….

 

[smoke]

…just figured out how to contact you all here so no need to answer that question….

 

[Mr.P]

Welcome!

The vendors here provide really specialized unique high-quality specimens, there are lots of folks here who can provide materials as you have already discovered.

If you were looking for high-quality oils that are more large scale mfr., commonly and widely available, cheaper (sometimes) then some good places off the top of my head are Eden Botanicals, Perfumers Supply House, and Fraterworks, Original Swiss Aromatics

good on you for trying to catch up on the massive archive of information here, I know you will find many happy to answer your questions and help you find what you're looking for. 🙂

 

[Amberbreens]

I think rose is the obvious classic here. But Jasmine? I feel like you couldn’t go wrong with either a sambac or grandiflora. Osmanthus and tuberose would be great in a blend containing musk but would probably be overkill if used directly with musk. Why not put the musk in your Mysore? To me Mysore, ambergris and musk is enough to fix all my life’s problems. You can’t really go wrong with sandalwood and musk. And depending on how strong you make it you can easily add that to other blends. Im a fan of low percentages of musk and ambergris as the ultimate transformers for anything they are added to.

Yes, that was my Plan, to mix it with Mysore and ambergris, but I'm still waiting for my Annajwa mysore to arrive, then it's the first thing I'll do.

 

[Amberbreens]

Does Orris root really smell a bit similar to clary sage? I got an Orris Co2 and it smells like a weaker clary sage to me.

 

[Mr.P]

Does Orris root really smell a bit similar to clary sage? I got an Orris Co2 and it smells like a weaker clary sage to me.

That's interesting…

I don't find the aroma similar and I've never seen them grouped together in any of the sections that talked about olfactory families. Maybe I could see how the powdery aspect of orris creates a sensation a bit like the soft diffuse sweet note from clary absolute, but I don't see the odor as being similar.

Orris products I have smelled have a pretty wide range of qualities - the resinoids and solvent extracts generally are quite different from the distilled orris (which is more refined, intense, and has violet-like qualities and fewer distracting earthy root extract notes).

 

[Rai Munir]

Greetings to you all. I am an absolute beginner and grateful to have found this site for i have countless questions and can see that i will find many answers here. i have likely hundreds of these pages to read thru yet would like to begin buying some scents to experiment with. Im seeing Apothecary Garden and Perfumers Supply House as places to start. I was looking at Nature in a Bottle as they had all the absolutes i wanted yet the prices-too good to be for real in sizes too big to manage, gave me a hard stop. A couple questions please, other suggestions for buying beginner oils, any good mukhallet/attar making books or guides, and lastly, i have never used forums before and dont know what it means to contact someone at @. So for @An Najwa or @Rai Munir, how do i find them individually. Gratefully….

Respected

Greetings to you all. I am an absolute beginner and grateful to have found this site for i have countless questions and can see that i will find many answers here. i have likely hundreds of these pages to read thru yet would like to begin buying some scents to experiment with. Im seeing Apothecary Garden and Perfumers Supply House as places to start. I was looking at Nature in a Bottle as they had all the absolutes i wanted yet the prices-too good to be for real in sizes too big to manage, gave me a hard stop. A couple questions please, other suggestions for buying beginner oils, any good mukhallet/attar making books or guides, and lastly, i have never used forums before and dont know what it means to contact someone at @. So for @An Najwa or @Rai Munir, how do i find them individually. Gratefully….

First, welcome onboard.

Here, all respected fellows would share their experiences, and having synthesizing all is what would lead one to better understanding of the nature of attars.

In my view, the following points are to be given much importance:
1. Use variety of oils, and see their nature and comprehend how they do evolve on skin. (Without knowing ingredients, making an attar is like creating a poem without rhythm and rhyme scheme, which is a hell for a reader and listner.)
2. Learning by doing is the only way to reach the destination, if a guide or a mentor is beyond reach. Books are dead words. A big NO to books (though one may disagree with me in this connection). In the same way, others views esp regarding ratio etc. is just a hint, but actualizing that depends upon one's own flare and commitment.
3. Acquiring quality, wearing and knowing them is foremost important thing. How does Mysore Sandal smell? Hiw does fresh Mysore Sandal smell? How does Mysore Sandal root oil or heartwood oil smell? What are differences between Mysore Sandal, Assamese Sandal, Ceylon Sandal, Australian Sandal? And many more probable questions relating to all ingredients.

Knowing ingredients is the only strength that infuses creativity in art of attar making. Otherwise, it is just a random scribble.
4. Haste is hell! Patience is all!
5. Making attar is like meditating. The more focused one is, the more nirvanic consciousness will be there.

God willing, we will keep in touch over here.

This is the beauty of Ouddict we share and care.

 

[Rai Munir]

Does Orris root really smell a bit similar to clary sage? I got an Orris Co2 and it smells like a weaker clary sage to me.

Not at all, as per my immediate experience.

 

[Shiningrobes]

Respected

First, welcome onboard.

Here, all respected fellows would share their experiences, and having synthesizing all is what would lead one to better understanding of the nature of attars.

In my view, the following points are to be given much importance:
1. Use variety of oils, and see their nature and comprehend how they do evolve on skin. (Without knowing ingredients, making an attar is like creating a poem without rhythm and rhyme scheme, which is a hell for a reader and listner.)
2. Learning by doing is the only way to reach the destination, if a guide or a mentor is beyond reach. Books are dead words. A big NO to books (though one may disagree with me in this connection). In the same way, others views esp regarding ratio etc. is just a hint, but actualizing that depends upon one's own flare and commitment.
3. Acquiring quality, wearing and knowing them is foremost important thing. How does Mysore Sandal smell? Hiw does fresh Mysore Sandal smell? How does Mysore Sandal root oil or heartwood oil smell? What are differences between Mysore Sandal, Assamese Sandal, Ceylon Sandal, Australian Sandal? And many more probable questions relating to all ingredients.

Knowing ingredients is the only strength that infuses creativity in art of attar making. Otherwise, it is just a random scribble.
4. Haste is hell! Patience is all!
5. Making attar is like meditating. The more focused one is, the more nirvanic consciousness will be there.

God willing, we will keep in touch over here.

This is the beauty of Ouddict we share and care.

☝🏼☝🏼☝🏼⬆️⬆️⬆️⬆️☝🏼☝🏼☝🏼

 

[Amberbreens]

That's interesting…

I don't find the aroma similar and I've never seen them grouped together in any of the sections that talked about olfactory families. Maybe I could see how the powdery aspect of orris creates a sensation a bit like the soft diffuse sweet note from clary absolute, but I don't see the odor as being similar.

Orris products I have smelled have a pretty wide range of qualities - the resinoids and solvent extracts generally are quite different from the distilled orris (which is more refined, intense, and has violet-like qualities and fewer distracting earthy root extract notes).

Ok, then I think I got a bad one. It smells not flowery at all.

Would you recommend orris rather as an eo or as an absolute or co2?
I ordered a co2 that was recommended by chat gpt, but it was rather cheap, so I guess that's why it's not really showing the typical scent profile - don't like it at all tbh, just like clary sage.

 

[Mr.P]

Ok, then I think I got a bad one. It smells not flowery at all.

Would you recommend orris rather as an eo or as an absolute or co2?
I ordered a co2 that was recommended by chat gpt, but it was rather cheap, so I guess that's why it's not really showing the typical scent profile - don't like it at all tbh, just like clary sage.

Orris is a little bit confusing because the steam distilled essential oil solidifies at room temperature and resembles a solvent extracted concrete. It is called orris "butter" but it doesn't have any fixed oils, it is a distilled material.

The essential oil can be further refined removing some of the solid waxy material and concentrating the oily aromatic material. The most refined grades are liquid, and are unbelievably expensive - on par with oud. The distilled oils are usually graded based on the percentage of irones that they contain. The refined liquid oil will be 80 to 90%+. Cheaper distilled oils may have only 15% or so, and will be solid, but they still have the clean powdery violet refined smell of distilled orris.

The concretes, resinoids, and co2 extracts that I have seen have all been very low in irones, and were also rich in rooty, earthy "accessory notes" that you don't find in the aroma of the distilled oils at all.

So my recommendation is to find an "orris butter" that is 15% irones or higher if you can find it and afford it. Get to know that material. Then sample some of the solvent extracts to see which if any of them bring the character of that distilled oil to the table. I think you'll find that these extracts are not really an equivalent material, something to complement but not a substitute for distilled oil.

 

[smoke]

Respected

First, welcome onboard.

Here, all respected fellows would share their experiences, and having synthesizing all is what would lead one to better understanding of the nature of attars.

In my view, the following points are to be given much importance:
1. Use variety of oils, and see their nature and comprehend how they do evolve on skin. (Without knowing ingredients, making an attar is like creating a poem without rhythm and rhyme scheme, which is a hell for a reader and listner.)
2. Learning by doing is the only way to reach the destination, if a guide or a mentor is beyond reach. Books are dead words. A big NO to books (though one may disagree with me in this connection). In the same way, others views esp regarding ratio etc. is just a hint, but actualizing that depends upon one's own flare and commitment.
3. Acquiring quality, wearing and knowing them is foremost important thing. How does Mysore Sandal smell? Hiw does fresh Mysore Sandal smell? How does Mysore Sandal root oil or heartwood oil smell? What are differences between Mysore Sandal, Assamese Sandal, Ceylon Sandal, Australian Sandal? And many more probable questions relating to all ingredients.

Knowing ingredients is the only strength that infuses creativity in art of attar making. Otherwise, it is just a random scribble.
4. Haste is hell! Patience is all!
5. Making attar is like meditating. The more focused one is, the more nirvanic consciousness will be there.

God willing, we will keep in touch over here.

This is the beauty of Ouddict we share and care.

This is very helpful. Thank you. I have purchased recently from several different vendors with some overlap of products so that i could compare scents. My first whiff of sandalwood in decades is nothing like my first smell (point taken from jk’s post about firsts) 30 years ago from a small oil shop, i think in cape may, new jersey. That sandalwood was magnificient- deep, rich, powdery, sweet. I think it was Indian. The one i just received bears no resemblance to it. I can see i will need to be patient, buy a wide variety of samples, and get to know them all individually, not necessarily rejecting some over others but rather learning about where the synergy is. Thanks for your wise words.

 

[Amberbreens]

So I've made some nice vanilla liquids from Madagascar vanilla beans - tincture and jojoba maceration. What would you recommend doing with it, if the vanilla shall stay the most present component? I'd mostly want to have something like a dirty vanilla, with a bit brown ambergris, but my blends don't turn out to be that awesome.

I have brown and white ambergris tinctures and jojoba macerations. How would you proceed with the vanilla tincture? Tinctures are a bt more difficult to process for me.

Also, my ambergris tinctures lost about half of the ethanol, even though container was closed. Is that normal? I don't just wanna fill it up again as then I'm losing potency. Also my (very) white ambergris macerations always turn solid, when I make them more than 10%, does this occur to you as well?

What is the best fixative, that brings out the vanilla best?

Thanks in advance
Greets from Breens