MFH - Experiments & Materials

[MaxFromHolland]

Well, the first attempt to re-create the original scent reminds me of childhood breakfast at my grandmothers place..
View attachment 55445
Not quite the intended church scent 😬 but i better write it down just in case.. (scent emerged from the double baked bread when soaked in the tea. Which was tricky because the bread is very light and airy and you could only soak it for less than a second before it would fall apart)

Machine is still running the testblend while i write this. In a weird way its a comforting scent.

Category happy accidents🙂

Yay, he who does not give up may eventually succeed 🤓
That special scent from the frankincense and myrrh top fraction had nothing to do with the myrrh being a top fraction after all. Apparently the trick is to dillute it down with ethanol. Not ipm, mmb or anything 'diffuser* safe'. Just 10% oil and rest plain ol' ethanol. That makes the vapor smell dry, like the church stuff.

*The type that uses a bottle of oil inside and can be programmed

5gr myrrh eo
10gr frankincense frereana eo
50g alcohol 95%
50g water

 

[Mr.P]

Yay, he who does not give up may eventually succeed 🤓
That special scent from the frankincense and myrhh top fraction had nothing to do with the myrrh being a top fraction after all. Appearantly the trick is to dillute it down with ethanol. Not ipm, mmb or anything 'diffuser* safe'. Just 10% oil and rest plain ol' ethanol. That makes the vapor smell dry, like the church stuff.

*The type that uses a bottle of oil inside and can be programmed

interesting, alcohol is definitely a miraculous carrier for certain aromas, in spite of its imperfections

I have some fuzzy knowledge here but one of the things I'm aware of is that for a molecule to trigger the olfactory receptors effectively, there needs to be some slight water solubility. And if there's a little bit of water in the vapor along with the components of the essential oil it will have a stronger effect on the olfactory system. I think of aromatic molecules as being nonpolar and to a large degree they are but every single one of them has some slight solubility in water or else we would not be able to smell them

I don't have experience with the alternative solvents you listed but I wonder if the solubility of alcohol in water and the fact that usually there's about 5% water mixed in with the alcohol makes it to more than simply carry and disperse but actually enhances perception

if those other carriers are not water-soluble it would explain why there might be a suppressed smell response

 

[MaxFromHolland]

interesting, alcohol is definitely a miraculous carrier for certain aromas, in spite of its imperfections

I have some fuzzy knowledge here but one of the things I'm aware of is that for a molecule to trigger the olfactory receptors effectively, there needs to be some slight water solubility. And if there's a little bit of water in the vapor along with the components of the essential oil it will have a stronger effect on the olfactory system. I think of aromatic molecules as being nonpolar and to a large degree they are but every single one of them has some slight solubility in water or else we would not be able to smell them

I don't have experience with the alternative solvents you listed but I wonder if the solubility of alcohol in water and the fact that usually there's about 5% water mixed in with the alcohol makes it to more than simply carry and disperse but actually enhances perception

if those other carriers are not water-soluble it would explain why there might be a suppressed smell response

Just edited the post for typos and adding the formula. There is indeed water in the blend.

I always used ipm to make the oils more liquid for the machine.
Its is not volatile but that didn't hurt my usually dark fragrances.
When i put the little leftover myrrh with frankincense in it, i had ran out of ipm and used some ethanol with water. Didn't dare to use pure ethanol as it reads everywhere to only use oil.
Store bought scent machine liquid turns out to be alcohol based so theres another pile of rubbish info circulating, probably to 'assist' sales of said liquids...

 

[MaxFromHolland]

I have some fuzzy knowledge here but one of the things I'm aware of is that for a molecule to trigger the olfactory receptors effectively, there needs to be some slight water solubility. And if there's a little bit of water in the vapor along with the components of the essential oil it will have a stronger effect on the olfactory system. I think of aromatic molecules as being nonpolar and to a large degree they are but every single one of them has some slight solubility in water or else we would not be able to smell them

I wasn't aware. Thats interesting info!

 

[MaxFromHolland]

I wasn't aware. Thats interesting info!

Ipm is not water soluble, mmb is (but the vapor smelled like the oil in the bottle using mmb, which i guess is a good thing normally)

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Made a small modification to return the hydrosol to the still below the steamrack, instead of having it drip down from the column, landing on the botanicals - which wasn't very elegant.
It also allowed me to make that column 20% shorter.
Ofcourse a mod demands testing 🙂 thus steam distilling my beloved pine bark into frankincense/ amyris. Runtime 50 hrs @ 0,36 kg/hr steam.
View attachment 55661

Ended the distillation halfway as the hydrosol was losing its freshness.
Didn't find any wetspots, bark seems evenly moist, that good.
Oil needs to settle but first impression is similar pine notes as with the previous run. Base is somewhat balsamic and the heart has a bit more sweetness. At this point no typical frankincense topnotes, just the pine but that may change.

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Ended the distillation halfway as the hydrosol was losing its freshness.
Didn't find any wetspots, bark seems evenly moist, that good.
Oil needs to settle but first impression is similar pine notes as with the previous run. Base is somewhat balsamic and the heart has a bit more sweetness. At this point no typical frankincense topnotes, just the pine but that may change.View attachment 55690

Frankincense begins to show up in the open. Between the F and the pine there are noted like peppermint and licorice. Weird, but likely it will be different in a few days anyway. I also notice some musty note like clothes that have been idling in a old wooden cabinet for a few years. Wouldn't mind if that would stay, guess i always liked that smell 🙂 wouldn't know how to create that in isolation though..

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Frankincense begins to show up in the open. Between the F and the pine there are noted like peppermint and licorice. Weird, but likely it will be different in a few days anyway. I also notice some musty note like clothes that have been idling in a old wooden cabinet for a few years. Wouldn't mind if that would stay, guess i always liked that smell 🙂 wouldn't know how to create that in isolation though..

Maybe if i would omit the balsamic base and use less frankincense.. nice to give it a try someday.

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Put some of the not concentrated peat/coffee/nutmeg/cardamom extraction in the scent machine. Set the thing to do a 3 second whiff per 10 minutes. Get some distant lingering wood with the occasional bit of mild smoke or vetiver-like earthy notes. Dubbed the blend 'the peat project' as its likely to become my pet project for a while. I've encountered so many interesting notes from the same recipe processed in different ways. Full vetiver blast as we speak 🙂 that stuff is alive!
.. Christmas hot chocolate stand with some woodfire in the background.. and gone again..

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Was driving A to B when i came across a large pile of roadside mowings, pulled over to have a sniff. Dried grasses and local herbs, figured to fill a bag and distill it.
I distilled hay often when tinkering with the still and figured it would be nice to do another run to see where i stand now. 9 hours in, the hydrosol still smells nice and fresh. I'll keep it going until i get home from work, which is a bit of a gamble. But its either this or that 😶

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Was driving A to B when i came across a large pile of roadside mowings, pulled over to have a sniff. Dried grasses and local herbs, figured to fill a bag and distill it.
I distilled hay often when tinkering with the still and figured it would be nice to do another run to see where i stand now. 9 hours in, the hydrosol still smells nice and fresh. I'll keep it going until i get home from work, which is a bit of a gamble. But its either this or that 😶

Guess i passed the sweetspot by extending the run. That said, even with the freshness gone, no offnotes, just less vibrant hay.
Started another run, same settings but will end this one in time 🙂 May end up with some good smelling oil. If it develops in line with the hydrosol, that is.

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Guess i passed the sweetspot by extending the run. That said, even with the freshness gone, no offnotes, just less vibrant hay.
Started another run, same settings but will end this one in time 🙂 May end up with some good smelling oil. If it develops in line with the hydrosol, that is.

Fun fact
Happily sniffing about i found some patchouli note in the background.
Trying to figure out which herbs could cause that it turns out, just like in those CSI episodes, that i grabbed the mowings in an area with quite specific flora, allowing me to reconstruct the probable contents. Wrote them down and will try to collect a modest amount and dry & distill them to see what i end up with.

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Fun fact
Happily sniffing about i found some patchouli note in the background.
Trying to figure out which herbs could cause that it turns out, just like in those CSI episodes, that i grabbed the mowings in an area with quite specific flora, allowing me to reconstruct the probable contents. Wrote them down and will try to collect a modest amount and dry & distill them to see what i end up with.

Second batch done. Somewhat different profile. Guess each handful was slightly different. But again there is def some patchouli note in there. Meanwhile i dont have any bodyparts left for another testpatch 🙂 Better shelf the bottles for a few days, then we'll see..

 

[Mr.P]

Second batch done. Somewhat different profile. Guess each handful was slightly different. But again there is def some patchouli note in there. Meanwhile i dont have any bodyparts left for another testpatch 🙂 Better shelf the bottles for a few days, then we'll see..

lol i can relate to running out of skin to test things on... I actually have a bit of a bottleneck in terms of my own sampling of unfamiliar perfumes and such, for example I have quite a few samples of oud and sandalwood I want to spend more time with, and for over a year I have had about a dozen Teone Reinthal testers that I am interested in checking out at some point but I just haven't been able to spare the skin surface area right now because i've been trying to develop my own fragrances and have other favorites that I like to wear on occasion. And you have to test things on skin, no other surface produces the same effect that I'm aware of

 

[roflwaffle]

And you have to test things on skin, no other surface produces the same effect that I'm aware of

One of the advantages of having children, since we can no longer put them to work (/s obvs, would never do that)

it's a curious issue. i wonder (Without giving it thought) if heat pad + leather would be viable vs test strips as more accurate. seems mildly crazy, but not wildly so. but theres almost assuredly exists some material that better mimics skin than paper for such things.

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Just stumbled upon this:

Wool absolute is a relatively new addition to the perfumer's palette. It's extracted from wool shorn from sheep for other industries which would otherwise go unused. The result is very much an sheep-animalic farmyard scent, with a surprising slight blue-cheese note and perhaps more importantly, no fecal notes (which are common in animalic perfumery notes). It's useful in oud accords and exists as a so far little explored material waiting to be used to creative effect.
Full product information can be found on the manufacturer's website.

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Concentrating some birchleaf tincture, from the back of the closet, down to 200ml. Just to store it in a smaller jar. Not one of the exciting species. Most an earthly green with just a hint of some mint.

Otherwise not very active. Somewhat contemplating 'the peat project' like which building blocks i need to conduct further experiments.

Had a bit of a pressure overload @ work so i probably should just relax with some music and a swipe of this or that.

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Looking for something to swipe i revisited

soaked:
Ground applewood, plum, apricot, pear, apple, cinnamon, lemongrass and 1ml of frankincense maydi for 4 days;
Then distilled it slooowly over jojoba until the waxes from the fruits began to show up;
Resulting in a nice barnyard open, followed by spices and green fruit,
that seem to become more red during drydown.

Did that change over time! Truly a lovely fruit bouquet, no barn or whatever left, just fruity freshness.

Edit: This stuff is really good. Feeling a proud old f*rt 🙂 and better go decant some into an attar bottle to enjoy it more.

So next time you read: fruits can't be distilled for scent smile and know better 😎

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Concentrating some birchleaf tincture, from the back of the closet, down to 200ml. Just to store it in a smaller jar. Not one of the exciting species. Most an earthly green with just a hint of some mint.

Otherwise not very active. Somewhat contemplating 'the peat project' like which building blocks i need to conduct further experiments.

Had a bit of a pressure overload @ work so i probably should just relax with some music and a swipe of this or that.

Strong material. Even reduced to just 50% already sticky..

 

[MaxFromHolland]

People tend to call an oil resulting from extraction an absolute (absolue) as opposed to essential oil which is the result of distillation.
Technically incorrect but for the lack of a better name, i suppose.
I'm reading 'the essential oils' by Guenther and he refers to extracted oil as 'natural plant oil'.
One the one hand i would like to adopt that to have a name for the stuff 🙂 but on the other hand, it kind of sounds like a lesser product than essential oil, while it usually is superior. The name is lacking the arrogance of 'absolue' 🙂