Miscellany of the day

[roflwaffle]

Today I decided to process my 'second run vanilla' down. to a concrete.

So, 2 years ago i did a misinformed vanilla extraction fro beans for cooking. The internet led me astray and said vodka was good. This led to a flavorfull but mostly pulled vanillins and sweet profiles. So with all that vanilla bottled, several months ago i tossed it in everclear to try to extract the more earthy base notes. A 'handwavey' different fraction of sorts. Called it today, and while its pulled some interesting notes, it seemed a bit lighter than i think i want for any sort of blends, so its' being evaporated down to a more concentrated form.

What's interesting/surprising is as it evaporates, what is falling out of solution appears to be more like an oil. Dark oily spots are collecting. I'm sure even with my light evap, i'm losing volatiles like mad, but the top notes should have been already pulled with the vodka pull. Maybe all a waste of my time, but might as well make the most of the beans rather than toss em. We'll see what I end up with. Prob <1g of dark thick oil/grease that with any hope, captures the earthy dark tones vanilla.

 

[Mr.P]

Today I decided to process my 'second run vanilla' down. to a concrete.

So, 2 years ago i did a misinformed vanilla extraction fro beans for cooking. The internet led me astray and said vodka was good. This led to a flavorfull but mostly pulled vanillins and sweet profiles. So with all that vanilla bottled, several months ago i tossed it in everclear to try to extract the more earthy base notes. A 'handwavey' different fraction of sorts. Called it today, and while its pulled some interesting notes, it seemed a bit lighter than i think i want for any sort of blends, so its' being evaporated down to a more concentrated form.

What's interesting/surprising is as it evaporates, what is falling out of solution appears to be more like an oil. Dark oily spots are collecting. I'm sure even with my light evap, i'm losing volatiles like mad, but the top notes should have been already pulled with the vodka pull. Maybe all a waste of my time, but might as well make the most of the beans rather than toss em. We'll see what I end up with. Prob <1g of dark thick oil/grease that with any hope, captures the earthy dark tones vanilla.

I don't think it's ever a waste of time (depending on one's goals of course) producing unusual base note fractions /fixatives like this. could allow for some unusual combinations and have practical applications

 

[roflwaffle]

I don't think it's ever a waste of time (depending on one's goals of course) producing unusual base note fractions /fixatives like this. could allow for some unusual combinations and have practical applications

Exactly. The waste would be if the resulting goo is uninteresting or I unintentionally burned off whatever good notes I was extracting in the first place. Costs are nil at this point, and setting it out and watching an evap is minimal effort.

I am a fan of long term extraction projects like this, since, they continue to work with minimal babysitting or effort. I have like a dozen or three diff 'experiments' going on at any given time. Yesterday I played around with dreamwood and trying to get it to smell a bit more like my preferred style of sandalwood. Not to replace sandalwood, but just to have a cheap bench standin for sandalwood, since costs were adding up on failed blends. I know many focus just on naturals here, but chemically, dreamwood is very close, same santalols for esterification and similar aspects in aging and chemistry, however, its very dull in scent. I've been trying to track down which sandal synthetic best adds the right notes to bring it to life a bit. Yesterday I found a spike of norlimbanol dextro really brought it to life and synergized with the santalol, but we'll see how it does when it matures together. Would give me like $1/g test stock if successful (though dreamwood is still a fine stock for long term tinctures as it'll still form esters the same way and the neutral scent is likely somewhat desirable for some tinctures if used for blends in small doses like saffron extraction)

 

[Mr.P]

Exactly. The waste would be if the resulting goo is uninteresting or I unintentionally burned off whatever good notes I was extracting in the first place. Costs are nil at this point, and setting it out and watching an evap is minimal effort.

I am a fan of long term extraction projects like this, since, they continue to work with minimal babysitting or effort. I have like a dozen or three diff 'experiments' going on at any given time. Yesterday I played around with dreamwood and trying to get it to smell a bit more like my preferred style of sandalwood. Not to replace sandalwood, but just to have a cheap bench standin for sandalwood, since costs were adding up on failed blends. I know many focus just on naturals here, but chemically, dreamwood is very close, same santalols for esterification and similar aspects in aging and chemistry, however, its very dull in scent. I've been trying to track down which sandal synthetic best adds the right notes to bring it to life a bit. Yesterday I found a spike of norlimbanol dextro really brought it to life and synergized with the santalol, but we'll see how it does when it matures together. Would give me like $1/g test stock if successful (though dreamwood is still a fine stock for long term tinctures as it'll still form esters the same way and the neutral scent is likely somewhat desirable for some tinctures if used for blends in small doses like saffron extraction)

for a while there I was able to buy biotech santalol made by BASF which was incredibly reasonable and just pure santalol produced by microbial fermentation. Comparable ratios of alpha and beta to the wood itself if I understand correctly

 

[roflwaffle]

for a while there I was able to buy biotech santalol made by BASF which was incredibly reasonable and just pure santalol produced by microbial fermentation. Comparable ratios of alpha and beta to the wood itself if I understand correctly

Yea, sadly it went unavailable. Yea Isobionics (BASF) is made, and reviews seem to indicate its actually better, but for whatever reason, either it went captive or is still in US import regulation, is also unavailable. Dreamwood is currently the only option i'm aware of for majority alpha/beta santalol available.

 

[Mr.P]

Yea, sadly it went unavailable. Yea Isobionics (BASF) is made, and reviews seem to indicate its actually better, but for whatever reason, either it went captive or is still in US import regulation, is also unavailable. Dreamwood is currently the only option i'm aware of for majority alpha/beta santalol available.

I would've bought much more if I had known it was about to dry up - I like having something inexpensive enough to experiment freely

it was pretty neutral, but had some aromatic qualities that reminded me of Atlas cedar which I find show up in some sandalwood when it's older and oxidized. Not sure how to interpret that

 

[roflwaffle]

https://bulkaroma.com/products/isobionics®-santalol-basf -- OOS currently, but at these prices, it's still a fairly hard sell, it's reasonably close or identical to their own asian s. album.

 

[MaxFromHolland]

I would've bought much more if I had known it was about to dry up - I like having something inexpensive enough to experiment freely

it was pretty neutral, but had some aromatic qualities that reminded me of Atlas cedar which I find show up in some sandalwood when it's older and oxidized. Not sure how to interpret that

Basf bought the Dutch company Isobionics and moved production to their plant after wrapping up the pilot project. Hard to find stuff indeed, if youre not b2b. Dont know if these ship to usa:

Isobionics® Santalol - the heart note of sandalwood oil

Isobionics® Santalol has a typical woody odor profile of Sandalwood oil and represents the heart note of sandalwood oil. It is a close alternative to sandalwood oil without a single gram of the endangered sandalwood tree. It is produced with our cutting-edge fermentation technology.

sourcearoma.com

 

[roflwaffle]

Well, my vanilla fraction is complete. Got a whopping 2ml of a fairly thick oily concrete. It's certainly not as sweet as vanilla with most of the vanillin taken out in the first pull, but enough remains to still be noticable. It's like a more moody vanilla. I'm letting it separate now in vial and see if there's more to pull out and dry as evap slowed greatly once t he oily film took over the entire top surface, but i'm also not gonna sweat getting every last bit of ethanol out, keeps it a bit more usable and should be used in small enough doses as to not cloud any oils (I assume). Wearing it now to judge tenacity and drydown, still going strong

 

[Mr.P]

Well, my vanilla fraction is complete. Got a whopping 2ml of a fairly thick oily concrete. It's certainly not as sweet as vanilla with most of the vanillin taken out in the first pull, but enough remains to still be noticable. It's like a more moody vanilla. I'm letting it separate now in vial and see if there's more to pull out and dry as evap slowed greatly once t he oily film took over the entire top surface, but i'm also not gonna sweat getting every last bit of ethanol out, keeps it a bit more usable and should be used in small enough doses as to not cloud any oils (I assume). Wearing it now to judge tenacity and drydown, still going strong

I always leave just enough ethanol to make it pourable in something for my own use, especially because I'm working with ethanol as a carrier. I have the gear to strip out that last bit but I see no reason to do so and generally want to get it into a closed container as soon as I can.

What I like about the idea of that base oriented vanilla fraction is potentially a tool that may act like a scent suppressor and fixative and (guessing again based on my own experience) likely to be noticeable in itself mainly as part of the skin scent or the very tail of the dry down.

Could go really well as a modifier for shrill fresh ouds for example. There was a discussion recently about the idea of applying the skills perfumery not just to create fantasy accords but also as a tool… In this case it might be the perfect thing to add to a less expensive oud with certain obvious flaws to try to repair it and make it into something that still is essentially oud but has been "bouquetted" to improve the profile. According to some texts it was actually pretty common when preparing essential oils that the vendor would add a touch of this or that to improve the profile... not talking about dilution but just traces to make the profile more appealing. I believe it was actually called "bouqetting" and was not necessarily considered to be undesirable

 

[roflwaffle]

In this case it might be the perfect thing to add to a less expensive oud with certain obvious flaws to try to repair it and make it into something that still is essentially oud but has been "bouquetted" to improve the profile. According to some texts it was actually pretty common when preparing essential oils that the vendor would add a touch of this or that to improve the profile... not talking about dilution but just traces to make the profile more appealing. I believe it was actually called "bouqetting" and was not necessarily considered to be undesirable

Exactly! As an owner of some less expensive ouds with certain obvious flaws, the idea of 'repairing' it back into something usable is very much of interest.

Interesting thing. I applied this to both hands, and to one hand layered on a decent but not astounding oud about 3 hours ago now. The surprising thing is that at this point, the vanilla has taken top seat, basically overpowering the oud. I don't recall this oud being particularly short lived. It's still there, just the vanilla appears to have much more staying power. The sweetness of the vanilla has subsided a fair amount, but the more savory but still vanilla is still quite alive. I think its a good thing, shows it has some potential even if used in small doses, which was the hope. (a very unscientific first impression as just a swipe of each was used). The aroma is quite pleasant with the minor oud notes i must say.

Interesting about bouquetting, I had not heard that, but it makes sense. Maybe not in todays 'purity above all' but in a more 'scent above all' world in small doses it does make sense, offer the best product possible.

 

[Mr.P]

Exactly! As an owner of some less expensive ouds with certain obvious flaws, the idea of 'repairing' it back into something usable is very much of interest.

Interesting thing. I applied this to both hands, and to one hand layered on a decent but not astounding oud about 3 hours ago now. The surprising thing is that at this point, the vanilla has taken top seat, basically overpowering the oud. I don't recall this oud being particularly short lived. It's still there, just the vanilla appears to have much more staying power. The sweetness of the vanilla has subsided a fair amount, but the more savory but still vanilla is still quite alive. I think its a good thing, shows it has some potential even if used in small doses, which was the hope. (a very unscientific first impression as just a swipe of each was used). The aroma is quite pleasant with the minor oud notes i must say.

Interesting about bouquetting, I had not heard that, but it makes sense. Maybe not in todays 'purity above all' but in a more 'scent above all' world in small doses it does make sense, offer the best product possible.

I actually have a section in my journal dedicated to this, although I haven't put much energy into it. Titled "Cheap Oud Salvage Operation"

My goal is to collect notes on favorable layerings that seem to offset the jarring notes of the oils I am less enthusiastic about. Some things I've tried like orris actually result in a more expensive mixture than just the cheap oud on its own so this is more about making the best of something that's imperfect than trying to dilute something to get more value from it.

In a way long soaks and fermentation are an effort to do the exact same thing as bouquetting only the added molecules are delivered by microorganisms at the front end instead of by pipette after distilling.

 

[roflwaffle]

so this is more about making the best of something that's imperfect than trying to dilute something to get more value from it.

Absolutely, making things smell better is also of far more interest to me than trying to stretch something and make it lesser. For whatever reason, I still don't have any orris, but it's been on my list for ages. I shall have to remedy that as it keeps coming up.

 

[Mr.P]

makes me wonder if there might be a market for bouquetted oud (openly honestly sold as such) for perfumers looking to incorporate authentic oud at a manageable price and who might otherwise be using mixed synthetic bases from industrial sources

 

[Mr.P]

Absolutely, making things smell better is also of far more interest to me than trying to stretch something and make it lesser. For whatever reason, I still don't have any orris, but it's been on my list for ages. I shall have to remedy that as it keeps coming up.

it's weird stuff. I was showing it to a friend of mine who is a scientist but has a completely untrained nose. It's fascinating because 100% of his associations are with basic life experiences and everyday items and not references to other fragrances. In his case it reminded him of some plastic pool toy or maybe it was a shower curtain… or something like that, not the overbearing vinyl type but some other plastic. Somebody once sent me a few few drops of the ultra purified liquid distillate which is as expensive as oud if you can even find it and that had a somewhat more refined aroma but it was still bringing to mind things interior latex paint, various plastics, etc. Of course there's a very real connection to violet and these nice deep starchy earthy notes, kind of a chalky aroma almost feels like it dehydrates your sinuses. Unbelievably beneficial in blends though. Like white Ambergris, almost too good to be true.

 

[Mr.P]

Just applied a tiny dab of ruh kadamba. I ordered this after receiving a small sample with an order of ruh gulab. I ordered a half tola and then another quarter tola to give to somebody else. It was one of those glitzy faux-fancy non-standard quarter tola bottles and it leaked all over the inside of the package about a year ago... cleaning that up gave me enough deep whiffs of the stuff to last a lifetime. It's only recently I've been able to handle smelling it again and it is a wild material kind of like a really exotic variation on violet flower, but at the same time pretty unique smelling and it's unique notes overwhelmed the violet like aspect when you apply a swipe of the pure oil. It also has some characteristics that remind me of chamomile a little bit especially the Moroccan Ormenis mixta type. I would love to try to make some kind of light violet oriented fragrance with this as part of the bouquet. Color is an orangish yellow.

 

[Mr.P]

One of the few aroma chemicals that I keep on hand is laevo-muscone (a synthetic copy of the main odorant + isomer ratios in natural musk). What a strange and complex and changing impression this one single chemical makes… I haven't used it in any of my blends but every time I apply a dab it creates such interesting layering effects throughout the day. Truly fascinating material and I understand why people are so drawn to musk in general. at the right dilution, I experienced this single substance like a complete perfume albeit an unusual one. I recognize different facets of musk and recognize references to many of the notes in this from other perfumes that I've smelled over the years.

 

[Mr.P]

good old oakmoss and L-muscone are some crazy aromatic substances with strange transformative powers. Fascinating materials to layer with.

 

[Mr.P]

again, L-muscone is nuts. I don't use animal musks in my fragrances so I don't have the experience that many here have other than having studied samples pretty thoroughly… but given what just this one little facet of it smells like when combined and layered it is no wonder at all that the complex natural source of this is so treasured. Has a profound effect on perception of other things.

(and I'm still geeking out on oakmoss here - it's like a magic potion when it starts combining with other things an olfactory marvel).

 

[Mr.P]

This is Nicotiana alata flower absolute ex enfleurage, concentrated today. This was a full immersion macerated type in an oil that is almost but not quite fluid at room temperature.