@Al Shareef Oudh
Wa Antoum Fajazâk Allah Kheiran
I agree with you on the aging as I mentioned it in my review.
Not totally agree on wild vs organic.
Price of the wood depend of the grade too, wild oil grade wood is cheaper than organic incense grade wood.
But for this two oils, we dont know what went in the pot.
For a hunder $200 bucks oud, I would like to say it doesn't matter, scent speak for the price, but for a $600 oud, I would like to know more.

@Ammar
Very good question 😉

@Uday Lalan
For me comparing to oils make sense when the profile is the same.

@5MeO
I say in my review Ceen is better...but not 3 times better.
FH is the deal...if you are not fortunate (cant buy expensive aged oud) and you dont care waiting 6 month (maybe less) before fully enjoy the oil.
 
Definitely not sentimental values otherwise we would have loved to be able to have as many people try our creations at cost price, but we live in a world that has real driving forces.

If we were to strip the value that age adds to an oil due to stabilising it, smoothing it, maturing it, givning it depth etc, and purely look at numbers, then age affects the cost of an oil in an array of different ways, and I will touch on some of the main ones to explain why the value increases. If we were to assume the same wood at year 1, 3, 5 then

1. Increase in cost of the raw materials, what is $500 per kg in year 1 can not be acquired for $500 per kg in year 3 or 5.

2. Increase in fuel cost, distillations run on fuel, gas, wood or electricity, all of which increase year to year.

3. Inflation and Value of Money over time, which means there is a lot of money stuck in oils sitting in a vault ageing, and that money is losing its value.

These factors and others such as basic labour costs, taxes, zakat etc all add to the replacement cost of that oil from year to year. Therefore whilst ageing adds value to the oil by improving its aroma, there is also an increase in the replacement value that the vendor has to account for the oil.

May I ask a question ?

First of all we can add in maturation process the fact that the time you spend maturing dont give you incomes (you invest money hoping better return on investment).

Plus there are risks : sinister on stock location, economy crisis which can bring inflation ect ect ...

Regarding zakat for all "muslims sellers", I need clarification because to my little little Tiny knowledge money : gold Silver and long conservation food + zakat : 2.5 on year savings.

Can commercial stock can be taxed whereas there is 0 garanty that you are going to sell all the stock ?

When it's stocked, you invest money inside to hope return as I said, can it be considered as incomes ?

And final question : if a seller pay zakat on his stock, Is it the consummers commitment to pay it because it would be indirectly included in the price of aging ?

This is not the first time I read it, I repeat my knowledge is very poor and at the end of the day ouddict is not a religious forum, but they are consumers from all kind of beliefs and I find it interresting for them to understand too.

Otherwise I will ask JK Delapp discount price for non zakat obligation hahahaha !
 
Of course we cant disagree with ASO that aging have a cost.

Just sometimes this cost seem to be overestimate.
 
I maintain first part : aging has a cost I would do exactly the same thing !

Spending money and turn around the Duran receipe every day like a shark during 4 years staring at oud prices everydays looking seller X selling same origin oil, seller Y telling I'm bankrut Agar Flora RIP and so on would stress me out !

We buyers should understand sellers everyday life because it's that reality that we dont even imagine when we buy a bottle.

I have just a little problem regarding zakat, Jawad is not the only one to talk about it and I will not give other name.

And maybe 99% I'm wrong but just need to know ...
 
okay French brothers I hope I understand the question/comment regarding Zakat.

The literal meaning of Zakat is ‘to cleanse’ or ‘purification’. In the Islamic faith, Zakat means purifying your wealth for the will of Allah SWT; to acknowledge that everything we own belongs to Allah SWT. According to Islamic law, Zakat is 2.5% of one year’s total cumulative wealth. This amount is then distributed to the poor. Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) has said “Whoever pays the zakat on his wealth will have its evil removed from him” (Ibn Khuzaimah and at-Tabaraani).

The value of trade goods is worked out at the end of the year, based on the price for which the owner would sell them.

This is what is fair, for the value to be based on the selling price, which may be lower or higher than the purchase price, because at the end of the year, a person pays zakaah on the wealth that he has.

Ibn Qudaamah said in al-Mughni (4/249)

Whoever owns trade goods and one year has passed, and they reach the nisaab, should work out their value at the end of the year. If they reach the nisaab, he should pay zakaah, which is one-quarter of one-tenth of their value. End quote.

It says in al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah (13/171):

The trader should not work out the value of his trade goods on the basis of the price of one who is forced to sell his products. Rather he should base it on the price which he would get if he sold it without being under great pressure. End quote.

So the values should be based on the selling price at the end of the year. (Shaykh Munajid)

As a principle, it should be known that Zakat in obligatory (fard) on five items:

1) Gold and silver,

2) Cash (money),

3) Merchandise & stock (i.e. items for resale),

4) Agricultural products,

5) Animals and livestock

Item number (3) signifies that Zakat is also obligatory on business wealth and stock (Urudh/mal al-Tijarah). The jurists (fuqaha) have categorically stipulated the obligation of paying Zakat on merchandise, and there is consensus on this position among the scholars of the Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama’ah.

Sayyiduna Samura ibn Jundub (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that “the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) used to command us to pay Zakat of those items that were for sale.” (Sunan Abu Dawud, no. 1557)

However, there are certain rules and regulations concerning stock & merchandise. The following is the view of the Hanafi school on the matter:

1) Goods that are purchased with the intention of re-sale are referred to as ‘merchandise’. If one purchased a piece of land, car, house or a property with the intention of reselling it, then Zakat will be obligatory on its current market value.

For example, if Ahmad purchased a house with the intention that, when the opportunity arises I will sell it and accumulate profit. In this case, Zakat will be obligatory on the current market value of the property.

However, if he purchased the property keeping his options open, without making a clear and firm intention. For example, he thought to himself that, if the opportunity arises I will sell it, or give it on rent, or if there is a need, I will reside in it myself, then Zakat will not be obligatory.

Moreover, if he had the intention of personal use but later changed his mind and put it up for sale, even then Zakat will not be obligatory until he does not actually sell the property and receive the money. The reason for this is that, at the time of purchase there was no intention of re-sale. Merely changing the intention (after purchase) will have no affect on the ruling.

2) Zakat is obligatory on the current market value of merchandise. Many people with regards to this make a grave error by calculating Zakat on the buying price of goods. This is incorrect, as Zakat is obligatory on the current market value. For example, if one has a bookshop, then Zakat will be obligatory on the market value of all the stock (books).

However, when calculating Zakat on merchandise, one can keep in mind the total value of all the goods. For example, I have a textile factory in which goods are prepared. Now, I have a wholesale price, a retail price, and a price for selling all my goods at once. When I calculate Zakat, it is permissible that I calculate it according to the third price, which is the value of the goods when selling them all at once, although it is preferable and advisable to calculate Zakat on the normal wholesale price.

3) It is also important to remember that, the market value of goods, which one will take into account, will be of the day of calculating Zakat. For example, Imran purchased an item for £100 and on the day of calculating Zakat, its value was £150. Now, he will have to take out Zakat from £150 and not from £100.

4) There is no Zakat on furniture, which is kept in the factories and shops for personal use (i.e. chairs, tables, etc.). Machines, which are used in factories or in printing presses etc., are not classed as merchandise, thus Zakat is not necessary. Similarly, there is no Zakat on the building or on the cars used for businesses.

However, if the furniture or machines etc… were purchased for selling, then, due to it being an article of trade, Zakat will be obligatory.

5) Zakat will also be obligatory on the goods that are manufactured in factories and mills. It will also be obligatory on goods that are under process of being prepared or are in the form of raw material.

6) If one possesses gold, silver and merchandise, and individually they are not equal to the value of Nisab, then one will have to add them together. If the total value equals or exceeds the value of Nisab, then Zakat will be obligatory.

7) If one has various different types of merchandise, then the total value of all the goods must be calculated.

8) If a person has invested his money in a business thus became the owner of a proportionate share in the business, then he will have to pay Zakat on the market value of that share. (Shaykh Muhammad ibn Adam Simplified Rules of Zakat, p. 14-16)
 
@Al Shareef Oudh hudhayl is a great work, a superb top notch hindi really but as far as I am concern not better than Oud Sulaiman III / Oud Shuayb or some others nice hindis available in the market.Ensar Oud put all their aged wild hindis for sale at $550 3g and the hudhayl is $565 for 2.5ml...I know that every seller is free to put any amount on his website but he should take into consideration the concurrent prices also.
 
@Al Shareef Oudh hudhayl is a great work, a superb top notch hindi really but as far as I am concern not better than Oud Sulaiman III / Oud Shuayb or some others nice hindis available in the market.Ensar Oud put all their aged wild hindis for sale at $550 3g and the hudhayl is $565 for 2.5ml...I know that every seller is free to put any amount on his website but he should take into consideration the concurrent prices also.

When we price our oils we do so based on a pricing model, not any amount. You have purchased Hudhayl the wood, so you know what went into the pot for Hudhayl the oil, if you do the math it will become evident that Hudhayl the oil @ $565 is a bargain.

We encourage consumer choice and freedom, please only purchase what your heart is content with after you make istikharah, if that is Oud Sulaiman III / Oud Shuyab, khair wa barakah. We will not compare our creation and art with the work of other vendors, that is part of the consumer choosing process. Allah Barik Feek Habibi.
 
okay French brothers I hope I understand the question/comment regarding Zakat.

The literal meaning of Zakat is ‘to cleanse’ or ‘purification’. In the Islamic faith, Zakat means purifying your wealth for the will of Allah SWT; to acknowledge that everything we own belongs to Allah SWT. According to Islamic law, Zakat is 2.5% of one year’s total cumulative wealth. This amount is then distributed to the poor. Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) has said “Whoever pays the zakat on his wealth will have its evil removed from him” (Ibn Khuzaimah and at-Tabaraani).

The value of trade goods is worked out at the end of the year, based on the price for which the owner would sell them.

This is what is fair, for the value to be based on the selling price, which may be lower or higher than the purchase price, because at the end of the year, a person pays zakaah on the wealth that he has.

Ibn Qudaamah said in al-Mughni (4/249)

Whoever owns trade goods and one year has passed, and they reach the nisaab, should work out their value at the end of the year. If they reach the nisaab, he should pay zakaah, which is one-quarter of one-tenth of their value. End quote.

It says in al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah (13/171):

The trader should not work out the value of his trade goods on the basis of the price of one who is forced to sell his products. Rather he should base it on the price which he would get if he sold it without being under great pressure. End quote.

So the values should be based on the selling price at the end of the year. (Shaykh Munajid)

As a principle, it should be known that Zakat in obligatory (fard) on five items:

1) Gold and silver,

2) Cash (money),

3) Merchandise & stock (i.e. items for resale),

4) Agricultural products,

5) Animals and livestock

Item number (3) signifies that Zakat is also obligatory on business wealth and stock (Urudh/mal al-Tijarah). The jurists (fuqaha) have categorically stipulated the obligation of paying Zakat on merchandise, and there is consensus on this position among the scholars of the Ahl al-Sunnah wa al-Jama’ah.

Sayyiduna Samura ibn Jundub (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that “the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) used to command us to pay Zakat of those items that were for sale.” (Sunan Abu Dawud, no. 1557)

However, there are certain rules and regulations concerning stock & merchandise. The following is the view of the Hanafi school on the matter:

1) Goods that are purchased with the intention of re-sale are referred to as ‘merchandise’. If one purchased a piece of land, car, house or a property with the intention of reselling it, then Zakat will be obligatory on its current market value.

For example, if Ahmad purchased a house with the intention that, when the opportunity arises I will sell it and accumulate profit. In this case, Zakat will be obligatory on the current market value of the property.

However, if he purchased the property keeping his options open, without making a clear and firm intention. For example, he thought to himself that, if the opportunity arises I will sell it, or give it on rent, or if there is a need, I will reside in it myself, then Zakat will not be obligatory.

Moreover, if he had the intention of personal use but later changed his mind and put it up for sale, even then Zakat will not be obligatory until he does not actually sell the property and receive the money. The reason for this is that, at the time of purchase there was no intention of re-sale. Merely changing the intention (after purchase) will have no affect on the ruling.

2) Zakat is obligatory on the current market value of merchandise. Many people with regards to this make a grave error by calculating Zakat on the buying price of goods. This is incorrect, as Zakat is obligatory on the current market value. For example, if one has a bookshop, then Zakat will be obligatory on the market value of all the stock (books).

However, when calculating Zakat on merchandise, one can keep in mind the total value of all the goods. For example, I have a textile factory in which goods are prepared. Now, I have a wholesale price, a retail price, and a price for selling all my goods at once. When I calculate Zakat, it is permissible that I calculate it according to the third price, which is the value of the goods when selling them all at once, although it is preferable and advisable to calculate Zakat on the normal wholesale price.

3) It is also important to remember that, the market value of goods, which one will take into account, will be of the day of calculating Zakat. For example, Imran purchased an item for £100 and on the day of calculating Zakat, its value was £150. Now, he will have to take out Zakat from £150 and not from £100.

4) There is no Zakat on furniture, which is kept in the factories and shops for personal use (i.e. chairs, tables, etc.). Machines, which are used in factories or in printing presses etc., are not classed as merchandise, thus Zakat is not necessary. Similarly, there is no Zakat on the building or on the cars used for businesses.

However, if the furniture or machines etc… were purchased for selling, then, due to it being an article of trade, Zakat will be obligatory.

5) Zakat will also be obligatory on the goods that are manufactured in factories and mills. It will also be obligatory on goods that are under process of being prepared or are in the form of raw material.

6) If one possesses gold, silver and merchandise, and individually they are not equal to the value of Nisab, then one will have to add them together. If the total value equals or exceeds the value of Nisab, then Zakat will be obligatory.

7) If one has various different types of merchandise, then the total value of all the goods must be calculated.

8) If a person has invested his money in a business thus became the owner of a proportionate share in the business, then he will have to pay Zakat on the market value of that share. (Shaykh Muhammad ibn Adam Simplified Rules of Zakat, p. 14-16)

Bravo Brother Jawad for this explanation as personnal title it has been very helpful (at least for me) May God reward you for that !

With this magistral lesson no need more clarification !

Thank you again !

PS : dont put me in @jalil and @firdaous same bag I hate them actualy !
 
Bravo Brother Jawad for this explanation as personnal title it has been very helpful (at least for me) May God reward you for that !

With this magistral lesson no need more clarification !

Thank you again !

PS : dont put me in @jalil and @firdaous same bag I hate them actualy !
hate is a strong word, maybe you just want all their oudhs , especially the Al Shareef Oudh bottles 😛
 
Regarding Zakat, I feel it should stay within ones own personal books. Its an act of worship and it's a donation from one's own wealth as whole. The prices of one's commodities should not reflect the Zakat given for it, atleast not directly. Indirectly, maybe... depends how you look at it. As for the regular taxes of the state we are required to abide by, then that needs to be a direct added cost to the commodity prices. That's just how I feel and I maybe wrong...
 
for me its clear...zakat taxe etc dont have to be mentioned...better to mention the grade of the wood put in the pot!
 
@Al Shareef Istikharah , Khair wa barakha , Barik Feek, Zakat . . . I don't understand these words a bit. As there are non Muslim oud lovers on this forum some explanation would be helpful. After reading your post I understand Zakat is the money Muslims part with voluntarily . . . That money goes to whom ? Mosque authorities ? Needy people ? Schools ? I ask for your forgiveness if I have put up too many questions.
 
@Uday Lalan

Your questions are absolutely appropriate and I should apologies for using Arabic lingo which everyone might not have understood. It is very easy for us to do that as the major part of our clientele are Arab/Muslim.

Istikharah; It is a prayer that a Muslim makes seeking guidance from Allah/God for a decision he/she is about to make. It is our belief that when a person performs that prayer and proceeds towards his decision if it is good for him, then The Almighty will facilitate and make him content with it, and if it isnt good for the person then The Almighty will avert it.

Khair wa Barakah; this is a phrase which is used to wish well, it literally means "goodness and blessing"

Barik Allah Feek : May Allah bless you

Zakat: is not voluntary it is an obligation on Muslims, it is one of the 5 pillars of Islam that each Muslim must perform. The other four being, 1. bearing witness that there is not deity worthy of worship except Allah, and bearing witness that Muhammd PBUH is final Prophet. 2. Salah (five daily prayers), 3. Zakat , 4. fasting of Ramadhan, 5. Hajj pilgrimage to Makkah if one has the means and ability.

Those to whom zakah may be given have been described by Allah in the verse in which He says:

...for the Fuqaraa’ (poor), and Al‑Masaakeen (those without means) and those employed to collect (the funds); and to attract the hearts of those who have been inclined (towards Islam); and to free the captives; and for those in debt; and for Allah’s Cause , and for the wayfarer (a traveller who is cut off from everything); .....until the end of the verse.

thank you for your question and I hope i have answered it in the manner it that it is deserving of.

@jalil

That isn't so with regards to wild tree vs incense grade plantation tree, especially not in China. Even a white wild A.Sinensis is worth more than incense grade 20year old plantation/organic tree. Keeping in mind that with Sinensis the white tree itself free of infection still has tremendous value in Chinese Medicine. If you are comparing price than there has to be some consistency in the parameters so that we have a meaningful comparison.

as @5MeO mentioned there maybe similarities in the peaks, or those profiles that stick out, but we all agree that regardless of how good a distiller is, we can not create the beauty and complexity that God creates in wild nature.

Wild incense grade wood that went in our pot is common knowledge to cost much more in the market than plantation wood. @jalil i am a little confused if you are now doing a wood comparison, or a smell comparison.

@Moralitypolice

I know this is blunt, and I am not one that will shy away from addressing these issues clearly.

When questions are asked I believe it is important that they are answered in detail, open and transparently. It cant be had both ways, ask a question then dictate how it should be answered, this is why zakat, taxes etc were listed not to say these are big ticket items, but that the price is not simply based on just the wood which seems to be the misconception here. Secondly according to Islamic Jurisprudence Zakah is different to voluntary giving of Sadaqah which is a private matter. Zakah on the other hand is an ordained 2.5%, there is nothing boastful in stating those realities so that the question is answered comprehensively and the consumer increases in their understanding regarding pricing dynamics.
 
Good morning everyone!

Oud of the day:
Mai Wan Lao -AA

This makes me feel: Aaaagh OOOUUUUDD
This is the first oil from Laos that I've tried and all I can say is that I will have to go deeper into oils from Laos. Wow..

It's not a "clean" sweet tuti fruity oud but it's also not a real barnyard. It's like a skancy but clean oil. Like a perfume with hindi oud that blends perfectly with rose or something that makes the perfume cleaner, but not to clean to be boring.

It has something that reminds me of chinese oud. Very much actually. And when I read the description it says that this is Laotian sinensis? I didn't know there where sinensis in Laos. Or is this only a way to describe the oil because of it's sinensis and laotian qualities? I don't know actually.

It starts with little of the "clean funk" that I've tried to explain but it's impossible to do, so I hope you understand me haha. Then there are so many different levels of different notes:

Little litte cheesy oud, dark red fruit like cherry, medicinal tea, piercing green notes like fresh tobacco... also after some hours from my beard it started giving me so creamy sweet notes like vanilla?!?!?.. but when I smell my arm where I applicated the oil I don't find the same note -.-

Very cool for anyone who want to try something new.. at least for me this is something new 🙂
 
@Al Shareef Oudh

Iam comparing price to the scent...basicly calling a bargain.

And when the price of a oud is $600 I want to now exactly what went into the pot.

A Hermes bag, we now exacltly where the leather come from (100% tracability) and how it is made.

For ceen you say, wild 4 years aging...600...nothing on the wood itself (appart it come from Hainan)...and nothing on the distilation technik and material (appart the distiller is a Hadj mach'Allah)

Its a little bit to short for me.

Dont take it personaly...its the same with ALL vendor who sale expensive oud.

But other vendor like Adam/Taha/Ensar listen this and show the raw materiel.

There has been a recent hot discussion on the wood used by ensar in its sultan serie. Ensar clarify the situation...everybody happy!

When a fresh organic oud cost 200 and a wild aged other 600, smell 80/90% same...This sharpens my curiosity.

And as you are professional and oud lover insha ALLAH...I advise you (if I may) to try Frangrant Harbour to see in real what I'm talking about.

If you dont want...we speak for nothing as you dont know what Iam talking about.

Wa salam alaykoum habibi
 
@jalil

brother I am still really struggling to pin point what exactly you are after from me.

I have already spoken to Faheem from IO who has tried both oils and he said they are different. Maybe once @Faheem he gets a moment he can add his view.

If you like Fragrant Habour from IO and you like the price, please go for it, this is what choice is about. But I will not compare our product to another vendor because I might make the other vendors product look bad, or say something unintentionally that might have a bad effect on another vendor.

Consumers can purchase oils based on a few different factors;

1. Smell; there a some clients that buy with their nose, and the other information does not matter to them.

2. Wood; other clients want oils from high grade wood and they do not care much for the smell.

3. Value; other clients want best value for their buck, they have a budget and they want the best that budget can buy.

4. Technical; other clients are all about the distillation process

We try to cover all 4 areas when we do our write up so that all our clients have a bit of information based on their area of interest. If you could tell me which of these areas you are interested in, then I could try to provide some relevant background. The reason I say this, is when I scroll through this thread, I have provided a lot of information on the different aspects yet you still seem unsatisfied, so I must have missed you area of concern.

Also as side note; even though FH is a plantation oil which is priced at $195 today, it will be much higher in 4 years.
 
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