Oud Wood

[-Renton-]

Hey
I hope i don't sound rude or anything, but i don't want to be part of any arguments etc
And in general i don't appraise anyone else stuff, i just do with what i have and my opinion or what i think to myself as it won't be any useful for anyone =)
Besides each have ther school, view etc they lean to, lets not try to make this show of muscles and keep the topic as showing Photos of beautiful wood etc.
Best wishes for all.

Yes, I agree. I just did not like when this guy threatened me again, which was what got him banned in the first place, and then saying that the wood I get from Kosmas is "CK-grade".

 

[TheDarkKnight]

I hate to sound like the bad guy here but in my experience this is fake kinam. The wood is pressurized with oil and this is extremely obvious. If this was a true wild natural kinam was that naturally to have so much oil all the way through to the very cores point it means the wood is extremely old and the wood fiber would be so thin and would have turned into a waxy kind of fiber and not an aggressive fiber like this in the pictures. If you look at the red circles i put you notice the specific woods fibers are very strong and not aged at all. Take a wood you have that is bunk wood and cut it you will see the same fibers sticking out like in this picture. With real old wild kyara the cut is so smooth the fibers hardly there and the block would be tacky especially for green kinam. sorry to my friend the black knight but I hope you did not pey a lot for it

If it’s oil-infused, it must be pressed after removing all the white parts, bro. I don't think you've ever carved a block from a stump and haven't had much exposure to the type of technology that uses oil pressure. Have you ever seen a block that’s oil-pressurized with an outer layer like that, LOL? I even have a clip of those workers carving away each layer of white wood to expose the oil inside.

 

[language scent]

Hey
I hope i don't sound rude or anything, but i don't want to be part of any arguments etc
And in general i don't appraise anyone else stuff, i just do with what i have and my opinion or what i think to myself as it won't be any useful for anyone =)
Besides each have ther school, view etc they lean to, lets not try to make this show of muscles and keep the topic as showing Photos of beautiful wood etc.
Best wishes for all.

Check out this white kinam bro LMAO i know what your thinking, but it is not palo santo, i know it look like it but its not. its white kinam in greek school of agarwood and kinam.

 

[-Renton-]

Check out this white kinam bro LMAO i know what your thinking, but it is not palo santo, i know it look like it but its not. its white kinam in greek school of agarwood and kinam.

Hey Kosmas. I guess this is "CK-grade kyara" Like batman thinks?

 

[TheDarkKnight]

Actually, I am the one who felt bad and told you to contact nadeem and tell him you forgive the black knight and to let him back in. i mean hes a good dude he just probably got sold from some liars maybe idk. sadly, but in no way this wood is really wild and real formation of oil the fibers do not lie.

In this regard, I think I will side with @iori . I won't care about what you or anyone else says about it, because when it comes to kinam, it's about the experience of the scent, not judging it through photos. This is something I discussed with @Mr.P . I don’t want to sell it or share it with anyone else on the forum; for me, the concepts and standards are different. Only when you go along with it for a long enough journey will you understand what you want and what others think. All negative debates bring no value at all. Thank @language scent .

 

[language scent]

If it’s oil-infused, it must be pressed after removing all the white parts, bro. I don't think you've ever carved a block from a stump and haven't had much exposure to the type of technology that uses oil pressure. Have you ever seen a block that’s oil-pressurized with an outer layer like that, LOL? I even have a clip of those workers carving away each layer of white wood to expose the oil inside.

Sounds like you know how the oil infused works very good 😉 of course many techniques exist that normal people do not know about. again no hard feelings, i just hope you did not pay a fortune for such a thing. in the picture, when the kyara is really old and oil formation very very old, the fiber becomes very soft and waxy when cut. look at the picture. the wood you show the fiber seems very thick and strong so how in the world did the oil manage to form all throughout tho the core and not have melted and digested the fibers of the wood? so either the wood is a fake oil infused or an agarwood fresh harvest. this that you posted seems more like a fresh agarwood harvest, but again to me it doesnt look very natural. but what do i know LOL you are the vietnam kinam authority of the world right? lol anyway i hope this doesnt hurt you but just think of it as my opinion, you are welcome to have your own. just to me doesnt seem like real kinam, at most it is an agarwood that still seems like someone pushed oil in the core

 

[language scent]

In this regard, I think I will side with @iori . I won't care about what you or anyone else says about it, because when it comes to kinam, it's about the experience of the scent, not judging it through photos. This is something I discussed with @Mr.P . I don’t want to sell it or share it with anyone else on the forum; for me, the concepts and standards are different. Only when you go along with it for a long enough journey will you understand what you want and what others think. All negative debates bring no value at all. Thank @language scent .

yea, your right, who cares what anyone thinks, if you like the aroma of that wood then its all good. i just stating my opinion based on the countless blocks of old kinam i have seen. try to get a little piece cut out from the middle and put it in boiling water, it might fall apart in the water unless they did a really new tech job. it just seems too oily to not have digested the fibers. thats why i said what i said, nothing against you personally

 

[TheDarkKnight]

Sounds like you know how the oil infused works very good 😉 of course many techniques exist that normal people do not know about. again no hard feelings, i just hope you did not pay a fortune for such a thing. in the picture, when the kyara is really old and oil formation very very old, the fiber becomes very soft and waxy when cut. look at the picture. the wood you show the fiber seems very thick and strong so how in the world did the oil manage to form all throughout tho the core and not have melted and digested the fibers of the wood? so either the wood is a fake oil infused or an agarwood fresh harvest. this that you posted seems more like a fresh agarwood harvest, but again to me it doesnt look very natural. but what do i know LOL you are the vietnam kinam authority of the world right? lol anyway i hope this doesnt hurt you but just think of it as my opinion, you are welcome to have your own. just to me doesnt seem like real kinam, at most it is an agarwood that still seems like someone pushed oil in the core

I think this is the last time I want to discuss this topic, at least with you.
1/ Your coming here and saying that the things my friends and I personally harvested, removing the non-oil wood, cutting, and testing it by smell multiple times to ensure that it's fake or not kinam, I don't care much about because your experience is limited to samples you’ve observed, read about, or through Japan or other third countries. It doesn't directly relate to us, and when you don’t understand it, using what you know to generalize all kinam samples from VietNam.
2/ Whether it is oil-rich or hollow will depend on the location where the kinam is formed. The area you circled is the part exposed to the air, where decay occurs strongly; at that point, it will decompose naturally instead of solidifying like kinam formed from the core of the tree. And the block at the top solidifies, forming a mass corresponding to the oil gathered inside the tree, instead of having gaps or holes like in the lower part.
3/ We are all scent enthusiasts, and I hope you understand that before discussing anything, experiencing the scent is the most important thing. That’s why I rely on my perceptions and experiences to identify non-natural samples, many many times. I do not judge any of your items based on photos until I experience them in person, and I hope you do the same; this is the minimum respect.
4/ What kills us is not what we know, but what we think we know.

 

[Ouddict]

I don’t see the need for tension here. Kinam/Kyara is a very niche area and I don’t claim to know all the ins and outs of it myself. Please agree to disagree in a cordial way. Photos are difficult to rely on as the sole arbiter of whether something is genuine or not.

I’m working with both @language scent, @TheDarkKnight and others to learn more about this very expensive area of Agarwood and hope to have enough of an idea about Kinam in a few years to be able to speak about it. In the meantime, I reserve judgement and just keep an open mind. That’s probably the best approach.

And this is why we don’t allow wood sales for wood not supplied by major or verified vendors, because the likes of Shoyedio/Baiedo and others are reliable when it comes to benchmarking.

 

[Ouddict]

A block of green kinam was recently harvested in Khanh Hoa province, weighing over 500 grams, sinking, for those who say that kinam can no longer be found in Vietnam. It is not easy to harvest and own this piece, so every step is fully documented, from the raw form, to water testing, and direct cutting to inspect the core, with absolutely no interventions like oil pressing, adhesive bonding, or sinking enhancements.

Who harvested this block and designated it as green Kinam? Well known local dealers? I guess a Japanese or Chinese customer will buy it.

 

[language scent]

I think this is the last time I want to discuss this topic, at least with you.
1/ Your coming here and saying that the things my friends and I personally harvested, removing the non-oil wood, cutting, and testing it by smell multiple times to ensure that it's fake or not kinam, I don't care much about because your experience is limited to samples you’ve observed, read about, or through Japan or other third countries. It doesn't directly relate to us, and when you don’t understand it, using what you know to generalize all kinam samples from VietNam.
2/ Whether it is oil-rich or hollow will depend on the location where the kinam is formed. The area you circled is the part exposed to the air, where decay occurs strongly; at that point, it will decompose naturally instead of solidifying like kinam formed from the core of the tree
3/ We are all scent enthusiasts, and I hope you understand that before discussing anything, experiencing the scent is the most important thing. That’s why I rely on my perceptions and experiences to identify non-natural samples, many many times. I do not judge any of your items based on photos until I experience them in person, and I hope you do the same; this is the minimum respect.
4/ What kills us is not what we know, but what we think we know.

"experiencing the scent is the most important thing. " false, natural product is first then effects is second then aroma is third. some wood have very bad effects. it is very important to know what you have at hand and you dont bro, i tested your samples, all agarwood. so you talk about my "limited" experience when i have legendary legit items from legit source and real auctions and well you have just whatever the merchents sell you in vietnam...meanwhile i know so many got ripped off in vietnam so you cant even go near japanese truth and relics.

 

[Ouddict]

"experiencing the scent is the most important thing. " false, natural product is first then effects is second then aroma is third. some wood have very bad effects. it is very important to know what you have at hand and you dont bro, i tested your samples, all agarwood. so you talk about my "limited" experience when i have legendary legit items from legit source and real auctions and well you have just whatever the merchents sell you in vietnam...meanwhile i know so many got ripped off in vietnam so you cant even go near japanese truth and relics.

I have to agree here that the Japanese houses are the best benchmark as they are centuries old companies selling to discerning customers. And I’m aware that they have hoovered up most of the Kinam that was available and have huge stocks now.

 

[language scent]

I don’t see the need for tension here. Kinam/Kyara is a very niche area and I don’t claim to know all the ins and outs of it myself. Please agree to disagree in a cordial way. Photos are difficult to rely on as the sole arbiter of whether something is genuine or not.

I’m working with both @language scent, @TheDarkKnight and others to learn more about this very expensive area of Agarwood and hope to have enough of an idea about Kinam in a few years to be able to speak about it. In the meantime, I reserve judgement and just keep an open mind. That’s probably the best approach.

And this is why we don’t allow wood sales for wood not supplied by major or verified vendors, because the likes of Shoyedio/Baiedo and others are reliable when it comes to benchmarking.

well, i am getting a pack ready for you. you will see real kinam cause i highly doubt you have seen it from dark knight and i am sorry to be this sharp and raw about my words but it is what it is. ps, i took about 10days taking pictures hundreds of pictures od kinams and agarwoods from my collection and sorting out the better pictures etc etc and then memory card just evaporated ...this is why i have still not sent you the pictures we talked about. @the black knight bro sorry but literally your classification is extremely off and this forum is very strict and should not be passing agarwood as kinam. so i speak raw about this

 

[Ouddict]

What do you even know about kinam while you're still buying CK-grade products and can't even distinguish them? Don’t make me tell everyone about what you did to me. With what you’ve done, you don’t deserve to have this conversation. Even when it comes to books about scents, you probably haven't even bought and read them, let alone being able to identify kinam, LOL.

Please don’t make ad hominem (personal) attacks on fellow members. @-Renton- has asked a couple of other members who share an interest in this area to provide their views on the photos. No one is a recognised expert here and we can all learn by just comparing notes even when we disagree.

 

[Ouddict]

well, i am getting a pack ready for you. you will see real kinam cause i highly doubt you have seen it from dark knight and i am sorry to be this sharp and raw about my words but it is what it is. ps, i took about 10days taking pictures hundreds of pictures od kinams and agarwoods from my collection and sorting out the better pictures etc etc and then memory card just evaporated ...this is why i have still not sent you the pictures we talked about. @the black knight bro sorry but literally your classification is extremely off and this forum is very strict and should not be passing agarwood as kinam. so i speak raw about this

Thank you. I have a sample pack from @TheDarkKnight and look forward to seeing yours. I had some Kinam from Shoyeido back in 2012 so have some idea of what type of experience to expect.

 

[TheDarkKnight]

Please don’t make ad hominem (personal) attacks on fellow members. @-Renton- has asked a couple of other members who share an interest in this area to provide their views on the photos. No one is a recognised expert here and we can all learn by just comparing notes even when we disagree.

Thank you, Nadeem. I think we should stop these endless debates here. We all hold our own perspectives, and until we truly understand each other's experiences and what each person has preserved, we will find common ground later. I hope there will be many valuable and interesting things in the future.

 

[language scent]

Thank you. I have a sample pack from @TheDarkKnight and look forward to seeing yours. I had some Kinam from Shoyeido back in 2012 so have some idea of what type of experience to expect.

lol yea, well, i will ship it by the end of the week. if i dont blow your mind then i will leave the forum lol i hope you have a nice kinam heater to firstly monkoh it close up to see the intricate depth and strong effects and then if you like put it on higher heat let it fumigate a small room so you dont have to be consumed by the practice.

 

[-Renton-]

Thank you, Nadeem. I think we should stop these endless debates here. We all hold our own perspectives, and until we truly understand each other's experiences and what each person has preserved, we will find common ground later. I hope there will be many valuable and interesting things in the future.

I believe we should have "debates" but not really hardcore political style debates that seem to be going on. I think we should just take notes on things we experience with the woods and then post them here and see if they fall within the margin of the Japanese system, as that is undoubtedly the best system when it comes to the nature of the wood, effects and aroma... although I am slightly different from my brother in arms, kosmas, and that is that I think aroma and effects are just important as each other, aroma and effects being on the same level of importance, thats just my opinion and experience with the amazing kyara's I have collected from my good friend @language scent .

 

[Mr.P]

Clearly there's some context here that I don't know about. I'm reminded of why I don't trust myself to buy wood based on pictures...

 

[language scent]

I believe we should have "debates" but not really hardcore political style debates that seem to be going on. I think we should just take notes on things we experience with the woods and then post them here and see if they fall within the margin of the Japanese system, as that is undoubtedly the best system when it comes to the nature of the wood, effects and aroma... although I am slightly different from my brother in arms, kosmas, and that is that I think aroma and effects are just important as each other, aroma and effects being on the same level of importance, thats just my opinion and experience with the amazing kyara's I have collected from my good friend @language scent .

well, some kyara is extremely mind numbing to a point if you accidentally smell too much it is literal suffering. so aroma might be amazing but if i smell more than a minute or two it gets really strong for 4-6hours. while another piece might not smell as gorgeous but still be very beautiful and give zen complete relaxed and warm fuzzy feelings, this one is better than any other that will smell better. it is like a beautiful person who will treat you bad, or someone who isnt beautiful who treats you with respect. so sure both matter equally but i prefer a woman who isnt as beautiful who will treat me good over a beauty who will make me feel like i am suffering. of course some people like that mind numbing buzz. its just that i am way too sensitive to effects of all wood and substances for many reasons. thankfully i have some extremely gorgeous woods that i can abuse the heck out of and have pure zen. mind numbing is the perfect effects for those who meditate tho.