“Kinamic”

So far the only oils I’ve smelled that feels like it could fit the Kinamic descriptors are Al Rub’ II and now Fragrant Harbour

Would anyone agree on these statements?
 
Castingshadows said:
I think something to keep in mind is that if you smell dried fruits in a Laotian oil you wouldn’t say it’s a Cambodian right? Or if you smell something green in a Sri Lankan oil you wouldn’t say it’s a Merauke because it shares a similar note with a Merauke right?

I think the issue is that because Kinam/Kyara contains so much complexity and so many notes you could quite literally say ANY oil is Kinamic simply because the tiniest aspect of any oil could be shared with the wood. I think this speaks to what JK said early “if everything is Kinamic then nothing is Kinamic” and I feel that. If any oil with a vanilla, creamy, spicy, green, minty note can be called Kinamic then every oil ever sold can be called Kinamic.
Click to expand...
Have you never smelled an oil which is Cambodian and thinking it’s laos for exemple ?

You’ve never smelled an oil and you are almost sure it’s sinensis but it’s crassna ?
I am pretty sure I have read some of your post when you compare a crassna oil to a sinensis or others …

What we are talking now isn’t so much about the region for kyara exemple… it’s more about what kind of notes , makes us thinking an oil is Kinamic …
So of course if I smell cinnamon in an oil my brain will thinking kinam …
If I find only note it’s not enough for I qualifying his oil as Kinamic of course but if I find more similarities, I will …

That is the magical smell of Agarwood…
What I want to saying is :
Agarwood is Agarwood… kyara or not .
Gyrinops for exemple is different in my nose …
But sometimes I am smelling an oil that I associating to an oil which is from a different region …
Three possibility :
It’s because it’s agarwood and they sharing similarities …
It’s because it’s a mistake and it’s not form the region of the label (like iori said in an other thread)
It’s because I am totally dreaming and my nose is sick ^^

The vanilla aspect in malinau, Borneo or Silani oils isn’t same as the Viet Kinamic vanilla right ?
So I am not saying each note I find in an oil smell Kinamic as I am not saying hay in sinensis is smelling hay in agallocha…

But I think I can saying this oil is Kinamic cuz this bouquet of notes I found in both : Kyara wood and oil …
And it’s maybe because it’s agarwood before being kyara Indeed …
 
Castingshadows said:
I think this is really the way forward. I’m not sure I can really take anyone’s opinion seriously on what is Kinam if they don’t have experience with the wood itself.

What JK said rings true as well. “If everything is Kinamic then nothing is Kinamic” and I agree with that.


Ahh I see. I missed that part where you said you have the wood. I think what you said about the vanillic lactonic note being represented as Kinamic seems to ring true and I believe you’re right. Any oil with this creamy/floral/milk quality will probably be called Kinamic.
Click to expand...
Indeed - heating the wood itself over a period of time is really all there is to it.

Train your nose. Clean up the diet. Clean out the artificial chemicals from your environment.

Over time things will become more clear.

Many oils could have a vanillic quality or creamy, etc - but again, heat some of the actual wood and you can see it's not even close to being comparable and is probably just a dilution of the meaning of the term.

A vanillic quality is called a vanillic quality because it's a vanillic quality - not because it's kynam.

You might use that term to try and describe a component of a kyara profile, but that doesn't mean it's the same thing.

People might use 'sandalwood' to describe a note found in a wine or scotch - but that doesn't mean it's literally sandalwood, or that sandalwood smells like wine or scotch.

It's worth mentioning since the myriad of tangential, and borderline irrelevant points that usually come up on this particular subject.

People are free to call things or label things as they subjectively feel like, but that doesn't mean it's true, relevant, or applicable beyond their subjective experience.

Some things lead to order, organization, and fulfillment.

Some lead to endless dead-ends of "why's" and "what ifs" or hypotheticals.

This is why traditions exist. This is why objective reality exists. This is how culture and societies are able to function.

Just our personal choice in terms of which direction we want to move towards.
 
man, i dont know about you guys, but honestly out of all oils i have took the time to smell, the only one for my nose with true kyara like hints is oud ertugrul the og one. i have not seen such clear notes in other oils and the only other one but with much less actual notes is royal guallam. many other oils did give some kyara like notes back a couple years ago but they were not realistic as much. you can make a mix of a couple oils and have something that can kinda resemple a specific entry grade kyara. i have done it twice, the one is amazing still , the other was amazing but something i used fell a it too much and it has hindered the kyara effect for me. 4 people who have smelled it fell in love. @TheOudDood i think i sent you a small sample...of course it is not and most oils are not true representations and will never be. still the oud ertugrul for me does have a couple true notes that are crystal clear to me. almost forgot diser kyara perfume that i have evaporated and collected the oil left behind, this also has a couple true face kyara notes that are crystal clear
 
I was in Kinam Chasing during most of my Oud journey when I first smelled wild Kyara Yamadamatsu…
I leaved this journey cuz it’s too hard and expensive… and you can definitely enjoying enough agarwood …

The only oil I smelled made with real wild kyara is RPP Blue Kyara …
With lotus of course but I think I caught the difference between lotus and Kyara even if it fits perfectly together ^^
Also I extracted by myself kyara with alcohol and it makes a sort of resinous oil with an amazing smell ! 🤔
I know it’s not essential oil 😅
but I made powder with Kyara And mixed it in alcohol, leave it in freezer and then took off the juice and let it evaporated in a plate … the result was a viscous consistency honey like oil with killer base notes of kyara and It was very accurate to my nose …
Only 3 or 4 tiny swipe yield but enough to enjoying it more than 10 hours each 🥰
It was close to Jk blue kyara aspect and I found similar notes in few other oils I tried like GENT In milky aspect, Hailam kilam on vanilla aspect , Guallam kilam in medicinal aspect , Kanbi Koh in sweet cinnamon aspect , MesOud Vietking in anis star aspect, Anas in powdery aspect , EOC in honey aspect , Ntu , King K Nam in almonds aspect and even Blue malay in lactonic vibe etc I am forgetting lot of oils … ^^
I am not saying these oil smells kinam but they sharing something that I identify as Kinamic and if it’s not the case of few other members I totally understand, cuz finally most of things about taste, is something subjective … ^^
When I am reading about Minty for exemple I find this hard to identifying with my nose … and I will never saying to others you are mistaking in this point etc …
If I don’t pick up Minty it is my own issue 😅

But I am very curious about fact of kyara not subjective feeling or identifying notes …
Do we have proof of the presence of certain special terps or sequiterps for exemple ?
We know about aspect but finally I can be soft or hard … sinking or not etc …
So do we have something that we are sure ??
 
language scent said:
man, i dont know about you guys, but honestly out of all oils i have took the time to smell, the only one for my nose with true kyara like hints is oud ertugrul the og one. i have not seen such clear notes in other oils and the only other one but with much less actual notes is royal guallam. many other oils did give some kyara like notes back a couple years ago but they were not realistic as much. you can make a mix of a couple oils and have something that can kinda resemple a specific entry grade kyara. i have done it twice, the one is amazing still , the other was amazing but something i used fell a it too much and it has hindered the kyara effect for me. 4 people who have smelled it fell in love. @TheOudDood i think i sent you a small sample...of course it is not and most oils are not true representations and will never be. still the oud ertugrul for me does have a couple true notes that are crystal clear to me. almost forgot diser kyara perfume that i have evaporated and collected the oil left behind, this also has a couple true face kyara notes that are crystal clear
Click to expand...
Bro you are the man I was waiting in this thread 😅
 
We don’t have to forgetting all these compounds in Oud oils are terps and if lemonen terps is in lemon fruit and cannabis , it’ s also in some agarwood oils … so saying an oil is lemony isn’t a mistake …

I am agree Is not correct when I am saying this is like this when « this » is an bouquet of many scent … that is true …
If kyara is a multiple different terps and I smell few of these scent in an other oil , it’s maybe a mistake to saying this smell like kinam cuz it’s probably not … but Kinamic is the descriptions of the scent and if it’s described, there is an interpretation… there is a translation…
Like the religious books translated in other languages than the original one …
So if we can’t interpreting or translate we have to learn the initial language which is impossible here in oud feeling cuz again it’s feeling and the etymology of words is complex … when I am saying this is minty you could saying it’s cooling or icy , anyway this is very subjective and in that case … when we say some malay smell cola it’s also not true cuz cola is different…
What about the real things … the proof or the fact of Kyara compare to agarwood to definitely seeing what we can call Kinamic or not … ?
 
We are making up the definition as we go here...

My addition: to me "kinamic" is not an either-or proposition... it is a more or less proposition. I have oils that range from occasionally reminding me a little of kyara to others that have persistent notes that remind of burning kyara, shokaku, etc. - even for those however it is always just a facet of the kinam vibe, and generally out of balance in some way compared to the OG.

If kinamic means smelling like a good complete representation of the scent of wild kinam, then I have 100% never smelled an oil like that.
 
Mr.P said:
We are making up the definition as we go here...


If kinamic means smelling like a good complete representation of the scent of wild kinam, then I have 100% never smelled an oil like that.
Click to expand...
This is what I’m getting at. To say something is Kinamic should mean it smells like a representation of wild Kinam. I think when we use loose descriptors anything becomes Kinamic as long as someone says so which is then used as a selling point.

For example if you bought wood that someone said was Kinamic and you paid a premium for it only to find out it was just some nice sinking grade wood I think most people would be upset. They would even claim fraud. Yet with oils it doesn’t matter. Anything goes in the write up.
 
Castingshadows said:
This is what I’m getting at. To say something is Kinamic should mean it smells like a representation of wild Kinam. I think when we use loose descriptors anything becomes Kinamic as long as someone says so which is then used as a selling point.

For example if you bought wood that someone said was Kinamic and you paid a premium for it only to find out it was just some nice sinking grade wood I think most people would be upset. They would even claim fraud. Yet with oils it doesn’t matter. Anything goes in the write up.
Click to expand...

As long as everybody agrees with you then that's fine! It would be nice to have clarity and consensus since this is such a marketed term.

I believe that there does exist a possible use of the word lying in between the extremes of it not having any specific meaning at all or it only meaning one particular grade of the various types of wood that are labeled as kinam. But the only thing that matters is that we all understand each other.

Usually adjectives are applied with shades. Like if you say somebody is athletic that doesn't mean they are literally Olympic level athletes.

And if we decide cultivated kinam isn't at least a little bit kinamic, what good does that do? There is a massive Ck market, isn't this de facto kinamic, regardless of what we say? I assume it is called cultivated kinam because there's already consensus on this.

I don't mean to sound argumentative I'm just trying to think it through. We can say that that's what it means within our internet bubble but i'm not sure what impact that would have beyond that.

Back to the spirit of what you were saying though as I understand it... people should use this term with care and recognize it does not mean just anything and your credibility as a reviewer goes out the window to a degree if you're not able to use these terms in a meaningful way.

It would be really nice to know when people mean smelling like fine wild kinam versus having sweet confectionery note that they have mainly smelled in cultivated kinam or mass marketed so called kinamic oils.
 
Last edited:
i think the long and short of it is - no oil will capture the aroma of wild kynam.

Most of the time I don’t tend to take it seriously when someone uses “kynamic” as a descriptor.

I think we all know who started this(EO) and subsequently has named dozens upon dozens of oils and perfumes as kynam/kyara. I believe this may have been well intended but was/is a mistake.

Also - Agar auras “kyara” attars don’t smell like kyara whatsoever. What they smell like is an oud oil mixed with cinnamon, vanilla, clove, and others - because that’s literally what it is - an oud oil mixed with spices.

It’s a noble and admirable artistic endeavor but again, misleading and inaccurate naming.

The combination of the dopamine hit of novelty mixed with perfumer’s alcohol often makes people geek out about these things but if you strip away the autism/ADHD/dopamine and instead just smell things as they are, then things become a lot more clear.

On that note, is bleach “kynamic?”

It has those high pitched nose numbing vaporous notes.

Obviously not and that’s my point.
 
In general oil to wood is a topic on its own. No oil I have tested smells as good as top notch wood so to call an agarwood oil kinam or kyara or kinamic is a joke especially when a top notch hainan wood would put to shame big time any hainan oil in existence. But again, for me oud ertugrul is that oil where I had been tricked into forgetting that I was wearing it and thought I was smelling kyara on the heater on multiple occasions. Strange thing is that these notes do not always show themselves. Most of the time it’s just a gorgeous Borneo oil. But, there is some insane kyara effect shining through that I haven’t seen in any other oil. Sadly oil will never come close to the heating fumes of precious wood on different temps.
 
It’s also worth mentioning these kinds of shadow olfactory experiences.

If you heat some really high grade wood or kyara and then shortly thereafter, swipe a high grade oil - then it’s likely you’ll pick up on these “kyara” kind of shadows/dreams.

It’s happened to me as well many times.

I don’t think those notes are actually in the oil but the brain is just doing some kind of odd associative echo.

The outcome will be “OMG this oil is so exactly like this XYZ aspect of the wood I was heating.”

Since the experience is so fleeting, random, and inconsistent - Id say it’s more than likely what I am describing here, and not an actual reality of the oil.

For instance, I once asked EO point blank why none of the 15 kyara/kynam oils I bought from him actually smelled like kyara.

His response was that I needed to fly to London so he could heat some wood so I could understand. Well, I should mention that first the group basically said I was an idiot and laughed at my inquiry. No one had anything meaningful to contribute on the matter. I persisted and then eventually got that answer 😅

Point being, this is more support for my claim here and would be a likely explanation behind most people’s experiences.
 
to me "kinamic" as a note sounds sketchy. unless the oil was distilled from kyara/kinam grade wood then... is it really kinamic then? and then how do you tell? so many different species and distillation methods im sure i wouldn't be able to tell unless there's pictures of the distillation too 😅
wouldnt that just leave "kinamic" to mean the oil has a certain level of complexity that leaves it a cut above other oils.... but not necessarily be kinam? meh. idk.
 
Castingshadows said:
It’s another Kinamic discussion!

I’ve been seeing almost every single Oud oil being talked about on this forum described as Kinamic. Out of curiosity for those that have smelled oils you consider Kinamic could you point towards the wood you have for reference? I’m trying to learn more about Kinam and it’s inherent properties but outside of Japanese incense I’ve never smelled it in it’s raw, pure form.

I don’t really consider cultivated Kinam as being indicative of actual Kinam therefore I refrain from using cultivated Kinam as a reference. I do have some Yamadamatsu green kyara in transit as we speak.

One thing I struggle with is wondering if your average sinensis drydown is what people are labeling as Kinamic? I see this word used for every region of oil though. Even oils I’ve smelled that people have claimed are Kinamic smell like pretty standard mid tier Oud oils.

So my major question is how would you, the Oud lover, describe what Kinamic means in your Oud oil journey.
Click to expand...
Try EO Brunei Kinam. I hear this on a stove top burner and catch the aroma in a brandy snifter. It is a lacy, vanillic ethereal aroma.
 
Castingshadows said:
I’ve been seeing almost every single Oud oil being talked about on this forum described as Kinamic.
Click to expand...
The use of Kynamic as a marketing term is truly out of control. I suspect what is being referenced to is the monotoned, saccharine sweetness found in young Kynam, rather than the infinitely expanding complexities that we seek.

Perhaps, it is because the base supply of cheap, gooey sweet Kynam is now expanding, and experiences with old specimens are now the outlier.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Hamza H
The Kinam Collection
Replies
0
Views
877
Hamza H
Hamza H
Hamza H
KEDAH, HAINAN - New Oil Releases
Replies
0
Views
258
Hamza H
Hamza H
aoudgauze
Kinam/Sinensis Recs
Replies
11
Views
1K
Mr.P
Mr.P
RakanOudArt
Trust Is Not a Test — A Reminder to Test Your Oud Oils
Replies
13
Views
832
oudcast
O
W
Elkhaldi Qinan Rose
Replies
1
Views
558
melkhaldi
melkhaldi
Top