By the time of our exchange, the oil was probably worth 25k in the retail market. Private sale would've gone for higher. Add to that, someone who cherished it as the pinnacle of kinamic oil.
“Kinamic”
- Thread starter Castingshadows
- Start date
language scent
True Woodict
You wanted less bro, but I wanted to give more for it. I know the oil worth way more than 670$ lol. This is why I love you. The oil has evolved amazingly by the way
SamiterkiW
True Ouddict
Hello dear friends ! Hope you are all well 🙂
Honestly I’ve seen the name « Kinamic »
used by almost all the vendors and Oud head excepted maybe Brother Habz & some others …
But Taha , Ensar , Marius , JK etc talked about kinam and Kinamic…
Ensar directly labeled his oils with Kinam name and i spent lot of times in Kinam Quest to understood not even one oils I tried contained any gram of Wild kyara … only (Blue Kyara RPP)
I think also some of members was lucky enough to try an oil from wild Kyara by Al shareef … but I think that is all I know …
After all I knew how much cost just a single gram of wild kyara wood so it’s impossible to distilling oils from such expensive wood as the oil should cost more than 15 -30k for a gram maybe …
Sincerely I understood quickly it’s not because an oil is labeled Kinam Kyara or Kinamic name that means this oil is kinam but it can sharing similarities with kinam …
I can see how some vendors can using it as marketing value but I am not agree with saying all vendors did it for this reason…
Can we thinking they did it because it sharing indeed a kind or similarities with kinam ?
To my mind yes …
We need guys to have the right doubt not the bad one …
And it’s very interesting to know why and how can we recognize same notes particularly during drydown and even more with crassna sinensis maybe ?
Firstly I would like to ask if I am wrong when I think Kyara or Kinam IS Agarwood…? Or it’s different species and we can’t compare them …?
Are we still allowed to saying Kinamic ?
This meaning is included in our Oud jargon like saying this oil smell watery but water does smell anything ^^ there is no odor in water even if we know what does that mean here in Ouddict …
If saying that makes bad feelings to other friends here I can understand and I will trying to not saying that word again …
I just want to be clear with all of you , when I say Kinamic , it’s a shortcut to lot of notes I don’t need to mentioning and if it’s not accurate, sorry for that … my nose sending fast info to my brain and then my mouth saying words accurately or not ^^
But I think it’s not an issue, for me and some others, to saying Kinamic cuz we all know here this Kinamic mention does not meaning this oil smell exactly like kinam … by the way all kinam doesn’t smell exactly same …
It’s maybe a factor of a spécial oudiness I found only in beautiful oils .
This isn’t something I smelled in entry level oils …
Anyway
This thread attracting my curiosity so much ^^
Thanks for the sharing dear members
Honestly I’ve seen the name « Kinamic »
used by almost all the vendors and Oud head excepted maybe Brother Habz & some others …
But Taha , Ensar , Marius , JK etc talked about kinam and Kinamic…
Ensar directly labeled his oils with Kinam name and i spent lot of times in Kinam Quest to understood not even one oils I tried contained any gram of Wild kyara … only (Blue Kyara RPP)
I think also some of members was lucky enough to try an oil from wild Kyara by Al shareef … but I think that is all I know …
After all I knew how much cost just a single gram of wild kyara wood so it’s impossible to distilling oils from such expensive wood as the oil should cost more than 15 -30k for a gram maybe …
Sincerely I understood quickly it’s not because an oil is labeled Kinam Kyara or Kinamic name that means this oil is kinam but it can sharing similarities with kinam …
I can see how some vendors can using it as marketing value but I am not agree with saying all vendors did it for this reason…
Can we thinking they did it because it sharing indeed a kind or similarities with kinam ?
To my mind yes …
We need guys to have the right doubt not the bad one …
And it’s very interesting to know why and how can we recognize same notes particularly during drydown and even more with crassna sinensis maybe ?
Firstly I would like to ask if I am wrong when I think Kyara or Kinam IS Agarwood…? Or it’s different species and we can’t compare them …?
Are we still allowed to saying Kinamic ?
This meaning is included in our Oud jargon like saying this oil smell watery but water does smell anything ^^ there is no odor in water even if we know what does that mean here in Ouddict …
If saying that makes bad feelings to other friends here I can understand and I will trying to not saying that word again …
I just want to be clear with all of you , when I say Kinamic , it’s a shortcut to lot of notes I don’t need to mentioning and if it’s not accurate, sorry for that … my nose sending fast info to my brain and then my mouth saying words accurately or not ^^
But I think it’s not an issue, for me and some others, to saying Kinamic cuz we all know here this Kinamic mention does not meaning this oil smell exactly like kinam … by the way all kinam doesn’t smell exactly same …
It’s maybe a factor of a spécial oudiness I found only in beautiful oils .
This isn’t something I smelled in entry level oils …
Anyway
This thread attracting my curiosity so much ^^
Thanks for the sharing dear members
R
Rename
Guest
All Kynam is Agarwood.
Very little Agarwood is Kynam.
I use the term Kynamic very sparingly. VERY sparingly.
The problem is the consumer rewards the abuse of this term with sales to the vendors that use it. A large part of this problem lies squarely on the shoulders of the consumer. If it didn’t move product, the vendors who abuse it wouldn’t be abusing it.
You mentioned my Blue Kyara - and by extension my Bai Qinam. Point of clarification - those are both genuine Kyara oils. No Agarwood. All wild Kynam.
Blue Kyara was less expensive because a good portion of the material was donated to me in exchange for some of the yield.
And the price of both oils was essentially subsidized by CO2 extraction, which has much higher yields, than were I to have distilled them.
I’m gonna speak as a vendor here for a second…it’s gonna be controversial, so everyone just take a breath.
One thing that drives me absolutely nuts is that people claim to want transparency - but when it’s given, they either complain about it, or they don’t reward it. Which equates to not really wanting transparency.
Many people exclaimed they want to try a real, genuine wild Kynam oil - and then it just sits in the shop. Meanwhile, they go and blow their money on marketing elsewhere, while letting the real deal, just sit there.
And then they complain about the price 😆
As you said, doing a genuine, wild extraction is not cheap. It’s a massive gamble for someone like me to try and produce this, and then I get to read about people, complaining, literally mention the product, and then move right along past it.
As a vendor, you have no idea how frustrating that can be as someone who has tried to give exactly what people ask for, only to have people spit in my face for doing it.
How many here have said they wanted to try a real, genuine wild Kynam oil - and haven’t bought any?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying YOU did this. I’m saying the community kinda done this. That’s just how I feel about it. Asking what y’all want. Giving it to you. Then getting a big FU 🤷🏼♂️
To make it worse, I’m stuck with the expense which prevents further experimentation in the future. Which isn’t bad, I guess, since most won’t even bother to try what they keep saying they want.
Just buy the marketing, I guess. That seems to be what people actually want.
We are all still friends. Just understand some of the community hypocrisy on some of these topics.
OK - rant over. 😆
Happy New Year !
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mesOUD
Resident Artisan
language scent
True Woodict
People have to understand that smelling the heating wood and smelling oils is a completely different topic. They should not be compared ever they are completely irrelevant to one another. No oil will ever smell like kinam and no kinam will ever smell like oil. They are their own thing, they both have their pros and cons.
I think the whole forum needs to delete the “kinamic” that a bunch of people used to make profit and realize that you can’t buy bananas and expect apples. Just be happy with the oils and stop comparing them to woods. Sure there are hints and resemblance but it is a completely different experience and I dare say that maybe our senses are not evolved enough to be able to smell the oils at their peak.
I think the whole forum needs to delete the “kinamic” that a bunch of people used to make profit and realize that you can’t buy bananas and expect apples. Just be happy with the oils and stop comparing them to woods. Sure there are hints and resemblance but it is a completely different experience and I dare say that maybe our senses are not evolved enough to be able to smell the oils at their peak.
Mr.P
oud<3er
The marketing complicates things.
I'm not as hung up on using it descriptively provided it's done intelligently and not to trick people into purchasing things against their own better interests.
If I smell a note emerging from an oil I applied earlier in the day and it reminds me of a note I smelled coming from some CK chips on the heater, I don't have any problem saying that I picked up a kinamic facet when smelling the oil. I will continue using the term that way so tune it out if that doesn't help.
if I ever were to smell an oil that smelled just like fine grade green kyara being heated on a subitism burner at just the right temperature, I would likely say "this amazing oil smells just like heating a piece of Green Kyara on a subitism at just the right temp" and not that it is kinamic.
How about we replace kinamIC with kinamISH? Because that's generally what I mean haha
I don't see that need to ban the adjective though
I'm not as hung up on using it descriptively provided it's done intelligently and not to trick people into purchasing things against their own better interests.
If I smell a note emerging from an oil I applied earlier in the day and it reminds me of a note I smelled coming from some CK chips on the heater, I don't have any problem saying that I picked up a kinamic facet when smelling the oil. I will continue using the term that way so tune it out if that doesn't help.
if I ever were to smell an oil that smelled just like fine grade green kyara being heated on a subitism burner at just the right temperature, I would likely say "this amazing oil smells just like heating a piece of Green Kyara on a subitism at just the right temp" and not that it is kinamic.
How about we replace kinamIC with kinamISH? Because that's generally what I mean haha
I don't see that need to ban the adjective though
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Castingshadows
@scentofsamadhi
Yeah I think if we say more accurate descriptors like “wow this smells a lot like CK” that’s totally acceptable. Because it gives others the chance to compare against the wood itself. That’s why when I roll my eyes at descriptions that say “it smells identical to heating the wood on low temp” but then you realize it’s nowhere the quality it would take for it smell like a high enough grade chip that smells good on a subitism. If we have wood we can compare against oils I think that helps a lot.
For example I have a sinking grade piece of Malaysian wood that has notes found in a sinking grade Malaysian distillation that was released by Al Hind (I don’t know the name just say unreleased Malay). It fits the descriptor accurately. Most of the wood I burn is actually pretty cheap in comparison to the oils I own but the wood used to juice the oils isn’t even close to the quality of $5/gram wood. So accuracy for me is important.
If I’m able to have the kind of disposable income that will allow me to smell these oils you have I will buy a sample if they’re in stock but my tax liability to the IRS has me locked in for another 5 years. In 5 years I’ll be free.
For example I have a sinking grade piece of Malaysian wood that has notes found in a sinking grade Malaysian distillation that was released by Al Hind (I don’t know the name just say unreleased Malay). It fits the descriptor accurately. Most of the wood I burn is actually pretty cheap in comparison to the oils I own but the wood used to juice the oils isn’t even close to the quality of $5/gram wood. So accuracy for me is important.
If I had $2K to spend on an oil I would but my limit right now is $300. That means I can buy a $300/g oil or a $300/.01g oil. But I can’t spend more than that.
If I’m able to have the kind of disposable income that will allow me to smell these oils you have I will buy a sample if they’re in stock but my tax liability to the IRS has me locked in for another 5 years. In 5 years I’ll be free.
language scent
True Woodict
its totally fine for everyone to talk about what they smell. but those notes are of the oil. if we say for the sake of understanding that kyara heating on the heater is a car made of metal and leather etc etc, does it sound reasonable to say that we see the car everytime we see metal or leather? the way i see it in order for a wood to be kyara specific things have to be undeniably showing and the same has to be with the oils aroma. the oils have amazing notes also, agarwood notes lol yet we dont say mmm this oil has agarwoodic notes that i love, we just want to advertise it to the holy grail LOL its fine as well im sure we all have felt it and smelled an oil with some beautiful facets. the crazy thing that people dont notice is that all kyara is not equal, and many oils are better than many of the lower grade mainstreem abundant cheap kyaras as far as aroma goes, but even a normal kyara that is cheap will give effects, so its just different.
R
Rename
Guest
Watch every oil released now has this line in there, “agarwoodic notes that i love” 🤣
Mr.P
oud<3er
i'm just repeating what you all are saying but the problem becomes when the adjective takes on the life of its own and becomes self-referential and I don't mean to minimize that concern.
So let's say I am a new ouddict who is really pumped about the oud that I am learning to enjoy. I read a review of a crassna oil that I own, and the reviewer mentioned that it was "kinamic". Now I go out and purchase some other crassna and it reminds me of that first oil which another reviewer said was "kinamic".
Now I end up writing a review talking about an amazing kinamic oil that I just tried out, assuming that the note that I identify is the one that the other person was writing about, when in reality it could be something entirely different.
So as you have all been saying it kind of behooves anybody who's going to be writing reviews to educate themselves so they are using the adjectives correctly if they want the reviews to have any weight.
So let's say I am a new ouddict who is really pumped about the oud that I am learning to enjoy. I read a review of a crassna oil that I own, and the reviewer mentioned that it was "kinamic". Now I go out and purchase some other crassna and it reminds me of that first oil which another reviewer said was "kinamic".
Now I end up writing a review talking about an amazing kinamic oil that I just tried out, assuming that the note that I identify is the one that the other person was writing about, when in reality it could be something entirely different.
So as you have all been saying it kind of behooves anybody who's going to be writing reviews to educate themselves so they are using the adjectives correctly if they want the reviews to have any weight.
SamiterkiW
True Ouddict
Dear I totally understand what you are saying here … I can read and feels that you are sad to offering something that consumers asked and then seeing them ignoring the thing they asked …
I am not including me in that case cuz I definitely don’t have the budget for buying this kind of oil and I never asked to a vendor anything like this … I know you was not talking about me but I want to say it’s hard to makes happy peoples when it’s about quality and price … we all have to choose our target
Occidental market isn’t ready for this kind of oil when it reach this price point …
Asian market maybe … cuz they use to buy crazy wild Kyara at crazy prices in auction …
To coming back to the usual subject, I was just talking about Kinamic word …
Not Kinam … cuz indeed Oud oils are nothing compare Kinam as it’s two different things …
My question is :
Is it a mistake to finding in an oil, similar notes to some notes in found in wild kinam wood ?
So can I saying this oil remind me Some notes i found in wild Kinam wood Particularly, and not in usual Crassna wood at 3$/g ?
So is it a mistake to saying Kinamic ? ^^
💚
mesOUD
Resident Artisan
I think there's nothing wrong with that.
Concepts and terms gain their meaning over time.
When a man is called a Lion, a Stallion, a Donkey, everyone understands what is meant.
Whom doesnt understand is donkey 😂
There are notes on an oud that resemble watermelon, orange, and sometimes there are notes that are best described as kinamic.
Everyone understands that what is meant here are notes that are more accurately described by kinam
I only came across this abuse once, when someone wanted to buy one of my oils, he asked me if your oils were more valuable than kinam, I said how so, he said that there was a 150 year old kinam oil and it was cheaper than my oil. When I asked him where he got it from, I understood the situation 😂
Maunamoku
True Ouddict
It is perhaps not so much an issue with marketing, as in many ways it may render the description more accurate; if there is any issue, it is likely from a limited verbiage accessible to the consumer. The descriptions of scents, textures, and sensations are not centralized, and many descriptions solely focus on the aspects of aroma. In many situations, it is up to the vendor to form the dialogue surrounding specific traits. We are very lucky to have Ouddict, as it is discussions like these that form the basis of our community's understanding, and the more we discuss the further we progress the generalized understand of agarwood in the West.
TheOudDood
Not that Brandon
One thing I learned early on is to be rather selective in whose reviews or assessment I took into account.
We each have our own palette, preferences, skin chemistry, olfactory system, experience level, etc.
This is especially relevant when it comes using kinamic as a descriptor and further when discussing kynam at all.
We each have our own palette, preferences, skin chemistry, olfactory system, experience level, etc.
This is especially relevant when it comes using kinamic as a descriptor and further when discussing kynam at all.
language scent
True Woodict
there is no denying it, the words "kyara-kynam-kinam" were 1000% used to trick unsuspecting people into baptising oil into a certain majesticness. everyone has their own idea of "kinamic" so again its ok to say you get kinamic notes but from the start it was a trick and then people supported it by parroting it and i say that cause so many people knew kinamic way efore even experiencing wtf kinamic really is lol. even if someone smell some entry grade kinam still has no clue what kinam is. heck i have like 100 types of kinam all wild and i still cant come close to a master who has smelled thousands. many kyaras i cant understand even after the 5th session because they are really complex and might require "close listening". So it is hilarious to say the least that for the longest time all these people who had absolutely zero clue what kinam kyara was on the heater were spittin "kinamic" non stop lol
now imagine someone selling agarwood wood and at the price of kyara cause he claims it has kinamic notes LOL or someone selling cinnamon oil and claiming it has agarwoodic notes and he selling the cinnamon oil for 250$/g....its just bonkers to begin with as is the whole kinamic thing was and still is
now imagine someone selling agarwood wood and at the price of kyara cause he claims it has kinamic notes LOL or someone selling cinnamon oil and claiming it has agarwoodic notes and he selling the cinnamon oil for 250$/g....its just bonkers to begin with as is the whole kinamic thing was and still is
language scent
True Woodict
to add some more, lol imagine that the person claiming his cinnamon oil smells agarwoodic is telling this to people who have no clue what agarwood is on the heater LOL then these people buy the cinnamon oil for 300/g and they go around parroting to their friends about their cinnamon oil that is smelling agarwoodic....name of the cinnamon oil? hhmmm.....how about "ceylon agarwood"....then years later they might come across some agarwood with cinnamon notes like a good hainan LMAO and they realize they got jipped. we were fooled guys
Here's a controversial take on this: any consumer falling for the Kinamic markerting has no one to blame but themselves. I don't think any vendor is out there to intentionally rip their customers off by telling them that they might as well buy this oil over actual Kinam wood. If anyone is such a newbie that they fall for this marketing, they should probably find a cheaper and more common hobby like fishing.
Mousse de Chene
True Ouddict
I relate to Mr P’s response here.
When I describe an oil which is obviously not produced from genuine wild Kyara as ‘Kinamic’, I’m not suggesting the entire oil is indicative of true scent of Kyara, I’m simply suggesting it exhibits a facet of a Kyara profile. I believe it is a useful description, as some high grades of woods & oil can display this facet whilst simultaneously smelling like normal Agarwood. For me, it would be inaccurate to omit this finding. If I could describe the aroma without using the term ‘Kinamic’ I would, but it’s next to impossible. Most of us know what Kyara smells like, yet it’s so difficult to put into words.
Like Mr P mentioned, If I believed an oil or wood smelled exactly like Kyara, I would say “This smells exactly like purple oil Kyara from so & so”.
Although I don’t have as much experience with this wood type as many of you, I’ve heated both CK & wild Kyara on the sub a handful of times, the aroma profile is so distinctive, if you have an experienced nose, I don’t think it requires an extensive study to understand the basics of the profile & to be able to successfully reference it. Those of you who are dedicated collectors/users of Kyara might think of me as being foolish for this over simplification, however, for the purposes of a concise review, I understand exactly what is implied when the ‘Kinamic’ description is applied.
