Kyara can give mind buzz and happy feelings, oud oils can do the same, at least for me.
Scent is a mysterious thing, one day I'm smelling something, the next it's gone or altered.
I'm still thinking oils have some kinamic notes, a whiff of it, not the complete picture, but still has some, so some oils can still be called "kinamic".
I can't ignore that the term have been extremely overused, but I wouldn't advocate against using the term completely, only against using it for marketing purposes, that would exposed with the first use of an experienced nose.
I can give examples of multiple oud oils that have not been marketed as kinamic by their vendors, and some of the experienced members perceived them as kinamic, so the two extremes are present, but of course the former is more abundant.
 
I totally know I’ve used these terms and I will no longer use them in the future. Like I’ve said many times I thought I knew what all of this stuff meant and now I realize I know nothing. But one thing I do know is that nothing I’ve smelled comes close to Kinam. That’s all. Call things what you want. I’m not singling you out or even referencing you so I hope you’re not taking offense or thinking I’m attacking you.

I’m not attacking anyone. I’m not fighting anyone. So please don’t see it as that. I simply am tired of paying lots of money for oils that are labeled as ultra Kinamic mind buzz and being let down because of the over use of the phrase by just about everyone.

I don’t think any injustice has been done towards anyone. So let’s not make this into a controversy because I’m talking about what these terms mean and how I feel they shouldn’t be used lightly.

If you dislike me now for talking about this fine. I can’t make you like me. I haven’t insulted you or any member on here. I have never claimed to be a medium. I have no issues with anyone using any words or names they like. Literally NO ISSUE. I’m not going around telling people to stop saying things. I’m not harassing anyone. I don’t think it’s fair for you to say I’m creating an injustice and being mean spirited.
WHAT IF you have another epiphany and you start seeing the Kinamic notes within oils or even within agarwood? 🙂
FYI, that is precisely when Taha calls his oils Special K, i.e. oils made from agarwood but having some Kinamic semblance. IDK what and how other vendors use that term. Just saying. The experience that the vendors have cannot be underestimated. So what if, after experiencing Kinam in it's entirety and then comparing it to top shelf oils, you can't help but find some Kinamic notes within those oils?! Ask @language scent how he feels about Oud Ertugrul or the Kinam perfume from a Japanese brand. Or ask him about Hainan LTD was it? Where he wrote an entire PhD level explanation of that oil lol (I had a good laugh reading his review lol).
 
WHAT IF you have another epiphany and you start seeing the Kinamic notes within oils or even within agarwood? 🙂
FYI, that is precisely when Taha calls his oils Special K, i.e. oils made from agarwood but having some Kinamic semblance. IDK what and how other vendors use that term. Just saying. The experience that the vendors have cannot be underestimated. So what if, after experiencing Kinam in it's entirety and then comparing it to top shelf oils, you can't help but find some Kinamic notes within those oils?! Ask @language scent how he feels about Oud Ertugrul or the Kinam perfume from a Japanese brand. Or ask him about Hainan LTD was it? Where he wrote an entire PhD level explanation of that oil lol (I had a good laugh reading his review lol).
I’m not some hardline “Kinamic” gatekeeper. Same as you I’ve literally seen his exact same thoughts he posted publicly in this very thread about Oud Ertugral. Do i need someone else’s opinion to help form my own? Not at all but talking with him about this very subject has given me a good understanding of his philosophy and I feel mine is quite similar.

I’ve sampled and owned quite a few of Taha’s SK/4K oils. I really don’t think Siam 4K which he says is almost an exact approximation of green Kinam really reminds me of the green stuff I have but who knows maybe one day I’ll burn some and think “oh wow this smells identical to Siam 4K” and I’ll be happy. Whatever.

There’s more than just Taha using Kinamic as selling point. I trust Taha’s nose and love Agar Aura oils and all the various aesthetics of the brand. Always have and always will.
 
WHAT IF you have another epiphany and you start seeing the Kinamic notes within oils or even within agarwood? 🙂
FYI, that is precisely when Taha calls his oils Special K, i.e. oils made from agarwood but having some Kinamic semblance. IDK what and how other vendors use that term. Just saying. The experience that the vendors have cannot be underestimated. So what if, after experiencing Kinam in it's entirety and then comparing it to top shelf oils, you can't help but find some Kinamic notes within those oils?! Ask @language scent how he feels about Oud Ertugrul or the Kinam perfume from a Japanese brand. Or ask him about Hainan LTD was it? Where he wrote an entire PhD level explanation of that oil lol (I had a good laugh reading his review lol).
It was royal kinam ensar oud oil and back in those days I did see yellow kyara note. The thing about that oil is that it was like cocaine. I am not joking. For me at least who has a very blessed nervous system and nose, that oil Everytime I used it had me up to 7-8am and the effects were like cocaine. Yes in high school I did try that drug lol

Oud ertugrul is still the only oil that has more than 1 “kinamic” note and those notes RESEMBLE kyara notes they don’t actually smell like kyara notes…but tell me how a wood on the heater flashing a hundred notes at once can be compared to an oil even like ertugrul that has a couple notes resembling the real thing but not it. It is like comparing leeche to rose, the leeche has a rosy like effect in the nose kinda but it is not rose. It is like trying to compare mint to the cooling of a hainan wood on the heater, sure both are cooling but they are nothing alike.

Diser perfume LITERALLY uses kyara co2 they claim distilled could be cause this does smell like kyara and the ingredients they use complement the small amount of kyara oil they use to make it blow up 100x. I have evaporated 30ml and made 2g oil which is void a lot of the top notes diser used and it is crystal clear that kyara is used.

Agarwood oils have some notes that can resemble mint but they are NOT mint…same thing with the so called kinamic notes THEY ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE, especially if you do a side by side but the correct way. Smell the oil you feel smells like kinam, take 10 minutes off smelling anything, wash it off your hand and then heat kyara. You will be like ok no it doesn’t lol.

You have so much kyara from what I sent you, but it is not enough to realize much still because it is different to smelling 10-15 kyaras (even tho you have only heated a couple) and it is different having smelled 100+ kyaras and I have been smelling 100+ kyaras still I am learning new things about this wood that I can’t believe. Sure there exist kynam that are very poor grade and many agarwoods are way better aromatically speaking. Just because the high grade kyara is king doesn’t mean that the lower grade is also.

At the end of the day I love oils that resemble kyara even if they smell nothing alike it is the closest thing still… @Castingshadows if I am not mistaken is just being extremely realistic in saying that what he is smelling just really doesn’t exist in any oils he smelled. This is not just opinion bro. The cooling of kyara, the purple aroma, the sweet, the bitter, the spicy, etc etc etc in whatever other notes one sees, they are a different quality than the oils “kinamic resemblance” by light years and they are just a tiny hint of the number. To claim oils have true kinam notes is like saying I saw a guy who looks like you and he must have had the same personality and family members were named the same as your family members also you have to be a donkeys ass to say that. so a donkeys ass is not just someone saying his oil smell kinamic, but someone saying he smells identical kyara notes in his oil and who say that anyone that looks like someone else also have the same personality and his/her family members also have same name as the ones who looks alike...so dont start saying that i called any of you a donkey ass please.. I hope you and others realize what I’m saying lol

People need to stop comparing oranges to apples like JK says.

Agarwood oils are precious in their own way that kyara will never touch, and vise versa is true also. It is pure marketing scheme to use k, kyara, kinam to a agarwood oil period. Maybe the distiller is clueless about the depths of kyara and his nose was constantly drenched in King Kong size swipes that he just can’t tell the difference lmao this is much more likely. Heating 5-10 kyara you still have no idea.

What I find hilarious is that for so many years those people who would parrot kinamic and kyara and stuff like that had never smelled real kyara yet had an opinion on what kinamic oils were. The distillers who sold them would never ask that question tho would they bro?? Would they??? Of course not hahahaha cause they knew ridicule was around the corner but also knew that a couple people wouldn’t matter especially since the oils were nice generally speaking. So that’s all I can say.

Oils are unique, agarwood is unique, kyara is unique. The moment one starts branding stuff and selling it then we jump into the profit thing it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see why they brand and advertise their products as such. Don’t be a fool, be realistic.

Put it this way, take your favorite oil, now find me any wood that smells like it. Very unlikely to happen…there you go, your oil is a unicorn. Be happy with your oil the way it is and in its truth, it is just what it is and not kinamic 😛
 
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The whole truth and nothing but the truth.

Smelling a cooling note in agarwood or kyara or agarwood oil may seem minty or eucalyptus BUT it is nothing like a mint oil or a eucalyptus oil. Sure we can say it smells minty, but this is not really true that it is truly “minty” in the way that mint oil is minty. Like many people said before, we can use the term minty to try to explain what we smell. This is the same exact way “kinamic” is being used when explaining an oils notes. However, the real question is how well does the person claiming his oil smells kinamic knows about the abundant flavors of actual kinam on the heater. This is the real question.

The more the years went by the more kyara I smell the more I realize that my favorite oil which smelled kinamic to me is still nothing like kinam. But as an oil it is the closest thing in MY OPINION that an oil ever came close to. Can I claim this to everyone tho? Of course not because I have not smelled enough oils! So imagine me who has smelled less than 40 oils to claim that out of all the oils in existence that oud ertugrul is one that resembles kyara most of all. It would be retardation. Yet, some people smell 2-5 different kyaras and half probably fake and they know LMAO and you see they leave reviews like “now I know” lmao and I’m thinking YOU STILL HAVE ZERO CLUE!

This whole topic to me seems like a bunch of men talking about their wives to one another and while they can clearly see or not(due to differences in taste) whos wife is the most beautiful, they say dumb things like…. “My wife is the best”, “my wife looks like his wife” “my wife cooks the best”, “my wife is the smartest….DAMNIT JUST LOVE TOUR WIFE AND REALIZE SHE IS UNIQUE! If you pimp your wife you will advertise her the way that seems most attractive to people more than those who actually love their wives lol

If you don’t believe products are being pimped out the same way a pimp will advertise his greatest prostitute then I have bad news for you….inbox me if you want to hear the bad news because I can’t say it publicaly 😂🤣
 
Miranda:
O wonder!
How many goodly creatures woods are there here!
How beauteous mankind kinam is! O brave new world
That has such people wood in't!

Prospero:
'Tis new to thee.
 
Can you guy tell us please what does smell Kinam ? I mean exactly ?
And then we will use Your words and terms to be accurate cuz you are, and we are not …

Saying vendors using these terms with bad intentions for agressive marketing is literally accusing them without any proof cuz you don’t know their intentions… by the way I don’t remember at all Taha said Siam 4k is almost an exact approximation of green Kinam… Never seen this … I don’t know where you found it … he just talked about the similar notes that was present in Siam 4k which remind him some of kinam note in his experience…
Also Taha know better Kinam than you as you discovered kinam few day ago …
He purchased from Japanese master few different Kyara even before we knew what was Oud for som of us ^^
He is legit … and honest …
He experienced almost all the legendary oils from Oriscent line and he find no issue to appreciate other oil than only his products…
He is very accurate Mashallah and he is no running after the money like some vendors who got indeed a massive marketing campaign…
Taha usually selling most of his oils privately before release…
He doesn’t need to talking too much with crazy story to selling his products…
He got an amazing transparency and honesty Mashallah
I am not working for him but I believe it’s not correct to talking about someone like you do even more if this person isn’t here for responding …
Talking about the intentions of other isn’t good and that is why I wanted to my opinion in this situation…
I have to blaming what is blâmable and recommending what is recommended …
I also took the talking because I am one of us who use lots of words to describing oils cuz I have my own emotion and if you feel nothing with an oil where I feel lots of things it’s not my issue…
I am not saying : you have to think like this …
Never I say or mean this …
but this is exactly what YOU seems to want when I am reading your post …
Talk about you if you want… but don’t talk about us and other vendors cuz we are not talking about you or others … its not the first time you are talking like a teacher and you are not the only one indeed …
But bro we are here for sharing not for talking too much like social media guys …
We have to keep peace between us and not judging anyone who use this and this terms and saying it’s for marketing etc … this is accusing…
If a vendor was selling an oil and claim it’s from wild kinam woods and it’s not , I would be agree with you bro … but a terms is a terms and Kinamic doesn’t mean (an oil distilled from wild kinam wood )

I am very sorry to showing this face of me cuz I am lightly upset to reading these kind of messages…
You know me, I am usually talking only about oils and never participating in any controversy
Also bro Kosmas, I don’t have a good English but I really don’t like when you are talking with this language…
I love language scent but the words you choose are bit hard and almost not polite … I like you but we are in forum here it’s not like social media we have to keep the right attitude…
When I read your post I am feeling like a stupid man and I know it’s not your intentions and I know Aaron doesn’t have any bad intentions but thinking people could be sad with what you are writing sometimes…
We are here for sharing nice things and we have to staying nice with everyone…
I am sorry if I was lightly emotional with you brother Aaron I maybe miss understood your post about accusing the community but I wanted to let you know what I am thinking about this …

To go back to the initial thread, Kinamic means something…
I’ve got a silani oil which smell Banana and mango …
This is what I smell without any influence… indeed it’s not banana or mango but I can say this , smell like this … where is the issue ?

When I smell some rose oil I get leeches smell … I am not saying it is this fruit ^^

Apple and orange are really different things so it’s not accurate cuz it a not even same family… different aspect different fiber, smell , taste etc …
Rose and leeches if different also but similar notes about the smell … but indeed different cuz one is flower and other is fruit …
But brothers Agarwood and kyara are both Aquilaria tree … of course they sharing similarities…
So if you guys talk about butter for sandalwood, leeches for rose even if it’s opposite products , why it should be wrong to saying Kinamic for an agarwood oil if both comes from same family tree and almost same process of infection and producing oil and resin inside wood fiber … ? both wood from same family we can’t compare them, and we can compare sandalwood with milk and butter and any Oud oil with mint lemon or even watery, mineral, musk ??!
Sorry but I don’t understand…
Butter for exemple is something I know very well cuz I am French… we put butter everywhere in our food ^^
When you guys talking about buttery I am not even thinking “how they can talk about butter for a Sandalwood oil, they don’t even know high quality butter they need to experience butter each day to understand what is butter …”
I keep the good doubt on you and I stay humble …

What I mean is, If i get lemon in an Oud oil , I am not saying it’s lemon … of course I am not stupid …
So should I learn the long list of terpenoids and sequiterpens to be accurate…?
Saying lemon is shortcut to saying Lemonen terpenoids…
Lemonen exist in lot of products including Oud , ginger , lemon , cannabis, orange , citrus, citronella etc …

When we say this oil is musky… there is not deer musk grains inside indeed

What about barn smell …?
When you say an oil smell like Horses…?
Aquilaria agallocha isn’t horse but we can referencing to this smell

What about oudhead who loves barny oils … ? We are using Hay , leather etc but it isn’t… hay got his own characteristic but we use it to meaning we are smelling an accord of notes or smell…
It is directly connected to our imagination and the availability to put words on feelings so it’s unmistakably Subjective… like Art …

What is barny for you isn’t for me and this is the beautiful thing of the life …
We can living same situation and experiencing a totally different thing …
You in front of me seeing 6 but I am seeing 9 just different perspectives

It’s not like perfumery industry which putting “Oud” label on their perfume bottles and doesn’t has any oud and doesn’t smell Oud at all … here is a real Lying marketing

It’s more like I am smelling sichuan pepper which smell Lemony to my nose and describing this sichuan pepper to a lemon cuz they sharing similar terps and you saying to me “bro you can’t say that cuz pepper isn’t lemon”
So yes Corsican Clementines are not Orange … but they sharing similarities…
Like Kinam sharing similarities with agarwood cuz both comes from Aquilaria

These things are subjective .
The way you describe an oil is your opinion and sometime it make sense for me and sometime not … it can help me or not …
We can sharing the same way to describing an oil and sometime it’s totally different and that is the richness of the differences …
I understand you spent money in oils after reading the describing of an oil in a website or even here after reading a reviews of us … I did it also …
Something it’s right on spot and sometimes it’s totally different from what I was expecting with the words you used …
Recently I tried a sample of AHO Fridous
Cuz I’ve read in a review the word Vanilla … I was expecting something that I didn’t found in this oil …
Fridous for me is very very close to Silani OG which is for me very petroleum almost cannabis like and even if I liked it a lot cuz I like fizzy top notes in Oud oil , i never found the vanilla I expected…

I even bought oils after reading some of you post brother Aaron … ^^
And it was mostly right on spot with what I expected …

If I find similar things in Kinam and some oils it’s my opinion…
Honestly MO Vietking is an oil I find very very Kinamic … It pushed me to warming some of wild kinam and it was very close to my nose and my brain … they sharing similar notes for sure to me … and what ? Am I lying ?
Why should I ? Just for talking ? It’s a sold out oil and I am not working for MesOud at all …
So yes this oil and some others got notes I found in kinam
I am not saying this oil is from kinam wood … kosmas find Kyara Dyser , Oud Ertugrul sharing similarities with kinam and it’s his opinion…
We can have similar opinions and different opinions… this is the life
And we don’t have to accusing anyone to doing things without knowing his intentions…
We should keep the good doubt .

Sorry again if I was wrong with you guys but I felt the needing to saying you that.
I like you, don’t believe the contrary, it’s just about formality and peace
Only the love Brothers and sisters 💚
 
Can you guy tell us please what does smell Kinam ? I mean exactly ?
And then we will use Your words and terms to be accurate cuz you are, and we are not …

Saying vendors using these terms with bad intentions for agressive marketing is literally accusing them without any proof cuz you don’t know their intentions… by the way I don’t remember at all Taha said Siam 4k is almost an exact approximation of green Kinam… Never seen this … I don’t know where you found it … he just talked about the similar notes that was present in Siam 4k which remind him some of kinam note in his experience…
Also Taha know better Kinam than you as you discovered kinam few day ago …
He purchased from Japanese master few different Kyara even before we knew what was Oud for som of us ^^
He is legit … and honest …
He experienced almost all the legendary oils from Oriscent line and he find no issue to appreciate other oil than only his products…
He is very accurate Mashallah and he is no running after the money like some vendors who got indeed a massive marketing campaign…
Taha usually selling most of his oils privately before release…
He doesn’t need to talking too much with crazy story to selling his products…
He got an amazing transparency and honesty Mashallah
I am not working for him but I believe it’s not correct to talking about someone like you do even more if this person isn’t here for responding …
Talking about the intentions of other isn’t good and that is why I wanted to my opinion in this situation…
I have to blaming what is blâmable and recommending what is recommended …
I also took the talking because I am one of us who use lots of words to describing oils cuz I have my own emotion and if you feel nothing with an oil where I feel lots of things it’s not my issue…
I am not saying : you have to think like this …
Never I say or mean this …
but this is exactly what YOU seems to want when I am reading your post …
Talk about you if you want… but don’t talk about us and other vendors cuz we are not talking about you or others … its not the first time you are talking like a teacher and you are not the only one indeed …
But bro we are here for sharing not for talking too much like social media guys …
We have to keep peace between us and not judging anyone who use this and this terms and saying it’s for marketing etc … this is accusing…
If a vendor was selling an oil and claim it’s from wild kinam woods and it’s not , I would be agree with you bro … but a terms is a terms and Kinamic doesn’t mean (an oil distilled from wild kinam wood )

I am very sorry to showing this face of me cuz I am lightly upset to reading these kind of messages…
You know me, I am usually talking only about oils and never participating in any controversy
Also bro Kosmas, I don’t have a good English but I really don’t like when you are talking with this language…
I love language scent but the words you choose are bit hard and almost not polite … I like you but we are in forum here it’s not like social media we have to keep the right attitude…
When I read your post I am feeling like a stupid man and I know it’s not your intentions and I know Aaron doesn’t have any bad intentions but thinking people could be sad with what you are writing sometimes…
We are here for sharing nice things and we have to staying nice with everyone…
I am sorry if I was lightly emotional with you brother Aaron I maybe miss understood your post about accusing the community but I wanted to let you know what I am thinking about this …

To go back to the initial thread, Kinamic means something…
I’ve got a silani oil which smell Banana and mango …
This is what I smell without any influence… indeed it’s not banana or mango but I can say this , smell like this … where is the issue ?

When I smell some rose oil I get leeches smell … I am not saying it is this fruit ^^

Apple and orange are really different things so it’s not accurate cuz it a not even same family… different aspect different fiber, smell , taste etc …
Rose and leeches if different also but similar notes about the smell … but indeed different cuz one is flower and other is fruit …
But brothers Agarwood and kyara are both Aquilaria tree … of course they sharing similarities…
So if you guys talk about butter for sandalwood, leeches for rose even if it’s opposite products , why it should be wrong to saying Kinamic for an agarwood oil if both comes from same family tree and almost same process of infection and producing oil and resin inside wood fiber … ? both wood from same family we can’t compare them, and we can compare sandalwood with milk and butter and any Oud oil with mint lemon or even watery, mineral, musk ??!
Sorry but I don’t understand…
Butter for exemple is something I know very well cuz I am French… we put butter everywhere in our food ^^
When you guys talking about buttery I am not even thinking “how they can talk about butter for a Sandalwood oil, they don’t even know high quality butter they need to experience butter each day to understand what is butter …”
I keep the good doubt on you and I stay humble …

What I mean is, If i get lemon in an Oud oil , I am not saying it’s lemon … of course I am not stupid …
So should I learn the long list of terpenoids and sequiterpens to be accurate…?
Saying lemon is shortcut to saying Lemonen terpenoids…
Lemonen exist in lot of products including Oud , ginger , lemon , cannabis, orange , citrus, citronella etc …

When we say this oil is musky… there is not deer musk grains inside indeed

What about barn smell …?
When you say an oil smell like Horses…?
Aquilaria agallocha isn’t horse but we can referencing to this smell

What about oudhead who loves barny oils … ? We are using Hay , leather etc but it isn’t… hay got his own characteristic but we use it to meaning we are smelling an accord of notes or smell…
It is directly connected to our imagination and the availability to put words on feelings so it’s unmistakably Subjective… like Art …

What is barny for you isn’t for me and this is the beautiful thing of the life …
We can living same situation and experiencing a totally different thing …
You in front of me seeing 6 but I am seeing 9 just different perspectives

It’s not like perfumery industry which putting “Oud” label on their perfume bottles and doesn’t has any oud and doesn’t smell Oud at all … here is a real Lying marketing

It’s more like I am smelling sichuan pepper which smell Lemony to my nose and describing this sichuan pepper to a lemon cuz they sharing similar terps and you saying to me “bro you can’t say that cuz pepper isn’t lemon”
So yes Corsican Clementines are not Orange … but they sharing similarities…
Like Kinam sharing similarities with agarwood cuz both comes from Aquilaria

These things are subjective .
The way you describe an oil is your opinion and sometime it make sense for me and sometime not … it can help me or not …
We can sharing the same way to describing an oil and sometime it’s totally different and that is the richness of the differences …
I understand you spent money in oils after reading the describing of an oil in a website or even here after reading a reviews of us … I did it also …
Something it’s right on spot and sometimes it’s totally different from what I was expecting with the words you used …
Recently I tried a sample of AHO Fridous
Cuz I’ve read in a review the word Vanilla … I was expecting something that I didn’t found in this oil …
Fridous for me is very very close to Silani OG which is for me very petroleum almost cannabis like and even if I liked it a lot cuz I like fizzy top notes in Oud oil , i never found the vanilla I expected…

I even bought oils after reading some of you post brother Aaron … ^^
And it was mostly right on spot with what I expected …

If I find similar things in Kinam and some oils it’s my opinion…
Honestly MO Vietking is an oil I find very very Kinamic … It pushed me to warming some of wild kinam and it was very close to my nose and my brain … they sharing similar notes for sure to me … and what ? Am I lying ?
Why should I ? Just for talking ? It’s a sold out oil and I am not working for MesOud at all …
So yes this oil and some others got notes I found in kinam
I am not saying this oil is from kinam wood … kosmas find Kyara Dyser , Oud Ertugrul sharing similarities with kinam and it’s his opinion…
We can have similar opinions and different opinions… this is the life
And we don’t have to accusing anyone to doing things without knowing his intentions…
We should keep the good doubt .

Sorry again if I was wrong with you guys but I felt the needing to saying you that.
I like you, don’t believe the contrary, it’s just about formality and peace
Only the love Brothers and sisters 💚
brother, never read what i say with bad idea, i never have bad intensions always just saying whatever comes to mind. 95% of you say is something i agree with, however those branding the agarwood oil with kinam and kyara are doing it for more sales and nothing anyone says will change this fact. think of it like this.....if i breed dogs and one of the huskeys grand grand grand grand grand grand grand grandfather was a malinua, should i advertise the dog as a malinua??? if the AGARWOOD OIL has .000001% kinam aroma to is then why do i want to advertise that and not the FACT it is amazing AGARWOOD oil?? when i first got into this hobby the first oils i tried regadless of anything were ones with kinam and kyara in the name hahaha and i bet you many others too wee hypnotized by this. it is pure hypnosis its all i mean to say and not saying that if you smell mango and banana in an oil you should not say this because its a different aroma. everyone knows cultivated kinam, and anyone can put ck in adistillation and have "kinamic notes" but no one ever distill wild kyara of high grade so they can talk about kinamic. most of the kinamic everyone knows is from ck and this is the truth...many who have tried the wild think they know but it is not enough to heat 1 type of kinam 20times to know...but sure, you may see notes similar to that specific kinam, are you a liar of course not. it is just that if we are to be realists we shouldnt confuse agarwoodic with kinamic unless you have a real wild kinam oil and you say it smells like your oils. agarwood oil that smells like kinam on heater is not possible. period. it just is not, there are much more things to take into account than the surface of things which is why i cant agree...but this doesnt make me better than anyone and it also doesnt make me the correct one. so anything i say is my personal opinion and it is not about making anyone feel stupid or lesser than me...

also bro, remember when you did never smell kyara even one time and you still called oils kinamic. this says a lot about the mindset of us all, this would have been me also, i am not saying that you are a bad person or stupid one because you did this. anyone can fall for it, however it is funny in general that we humans are like monkeys who will fall for anything because we are good people who love things. and again, even 4-10 different kyaras will not be easy to really understand such a complex thing. it takes time. it really does....not many people spend that kinda money tho or time.. most people spraying lots of perfume and enjoying life like that, nothing wrong with that...but tell me how many people you know heating only wood....not many, i believe these people understand more layers to the whole thing, probably the same is true for oils also, but still two different things.

you said: "Also bro Kosmas, I don’t have a good English but I really don’t like when you are talking with this language…
I love language scent but the words you choose are bit hard and almost not polite … I like you but we are in forum here it’s not like social media we have to keep the right attitude…
When I read your post I am feeling like a stupid man and I know it’s not your intentions"
brother, you know i really respect you for your hardcore passion and everyone else also because we share the same love for aromatics...think about the whole population of earth and think about how many of us exist who ae obsessed with these things, we are all truly brothers in the olfactory sense. problem is i do not believe in weaponizing language so i do not view insults as insults but rather just expression of me. if someone trying to insult you then you know it is them insulting their self.


what i learned with kyara is a language, and it is like learning the alphabet first, then some words, then some grammar, then reading books of poetry and beautiful love stories. the fumes are a like a teacher to the nose on a level that no other aromatics are. Some of the most complex oils i have had never changed much after many years only due to their curing and other, but kyara is like an encyclopedia of its own within its own fumes and temps.

There is no way to explain it. Back when i first started this hobby i thought i knew what it was after heating some amazing kinam. then another kinam was different and another, and another, and another and this went on for some 100 kyaras. back then i could not tell the difference of top grade agarwood and kyara even tho i thought i did..then the kyaras that i thought were amazing were just entry grade and many changed so much they arent what i remembered and continue shifting but its not them, its the nose that learns to see things differently. .now it is much more clear, but still not something that can be told. it is like chess, tell the top chess players to tell you how to play, do you think its possible that they will tell you how and then you will play as good as them? its not possible. your nose is like a chess playerr, the more you play the more you understand and unlock, no one can truly say what it is...everything is similar to that even with oils just on a different level.

you say "Saying vendors using these terms with bad intentions for agressive marketing is literally accusing them without any proof cuz you don’t know their intentions… " bro, proof is how they use the word kinam. lol that clear. you distilling agarwood yet you talking about it smells like kinam?? that is proof clearly. you cant distill agarwood then name and label it kyara or kinam then when i ask you if it really is like kyara you tell me it has a note that kyara also has lol so the oil smells like 99.999% agarwood oil but you label it and attach a "kyara" or "kinam" to it to make it more attractive but you asking for proof? I am not saying taha or ensar are bad guys, but come one. you selling AGARWOOD OIL it has nothing to do with KINNAM/KYARA. I dont care who it is and how nice they are i will tell you one thing that taha wont tell you and ensar wont tell you. the oils they sell are not personal stash, they can sell them anyway they want weather its private or not weather its advertisement or not, it doesnt matter, one thing is fo sue, their private stash is made of completely different wood and oil. they have a passion for taking cheap wood and making amazing oil sure. but they also gotta eat and sell etc. selling nice oil is not a ad thing and neither is advertising it, even if using the words kyara kinam because simply it is advertisement for sales....BUT that doesnt mean i wont and shouldnt tell the truth that while agarwood oils smell nice they are NOT kinamic, they are AGARWOODIC. kyara and kinam and agarwood share many similarities but at the same time they are nothing alike if you do proper classification via experience. Like i said, it would not be nice to sell cinnamon oil from ceylon and call it ceylon agarwood. would it? but i bet you more people would buy it! dont you think? lol think about this simple concept brother for a good oil........be honest.....which oil name for an amazing vietnamese oil would sell better...."kyara ltd or vietkong"....."king k nam" or "vietnamese juice"? literally any oils name added with kinam or kyara will make it more attactive yet we claim its not for sales and because someone who distilled 3$/g oil says the oil smells kinamic when its really agarwoodic lol as i said agarwood is closely related to kyara bro.
 
the only thing that matters is what we love. if 4 out of the 20 oils anyone has smells "kinamic" to them then that is all that matters. if any oil will give anyone an extra edge and they like calling it kinamic that is perfectly fine. the closest thing any of us have to a kyara oil is a agarwood oil which we think smells kinamic and that is perfectly fine also. the only objection i ever had about this is that we disregard the beauty of agarwood by not knowing agarwood and also by not knowing kinam. it is like having a beautiful wife and the only thing being excited about her is that she looks a little bit like a famous actor woman....come one....be fair to the AGARWOOD oil, it smells agarwoodic!! lol 😛

i myself said a billion times oud ertugrul to me smells kinamic more than other oils so i am not play pretending to be some authority of what you should call your experiences and oils, my other objection is that distillers add the label kyara/kinam because they just smell kinam and not because they know the oil will have more success. if you are a distiller and out of the 20 agarwood notes you have 1note resembling vanilla, which is abundant to agarwood, to cultivated kinam and to wild kyaa also, yet are all on a completely different level of quality then which kyara/kinam you talking about in expressing your agarwood oil and why call it kinam/kyara??? i say because you want to sell it fast and also plant a big idea which will act like a placebo. now i have no clue who on the forum did this and i am not saying you did this purely out of profit idea, maye you did it because you added ck, or maybe you added wild "kinam skins" lol or idk what. just in my personal opinion, agarwood oil branded as kyara is a no no because agarwood is a beauty on its own and so is its oil, yet you wanna go to different lands and advertise different things as you ignore that agarwood can be confused with kyara also and that they share similarities but have different level of complexity and richness to whatever is perceived weather "vanilla", rose, citrus, flowey etc......

many times i write experience on my kinam on heater in burn of the day and try to describe it through universally known aromatics too, i neve said one shouldnt use the word kinamic i just think it is a huge insult to agarwood oil as it would be to anyones wife if the husband said his wife looks like some famous woman and was happy about that and advertising it non stop lol also i say and feel people should start getting to know agarwood and realizing how precious it is all in itself rather than throwing around the lies of it smelling like kinam. BUT IT COULD for some people depending on their experience level on all aromatics. personally i just dont see it, it is not enough for me to see it. does my favorite oil still smell "kinamic" sure haha but at the same time not even close. so who is right what is right what is wrong etc etc, nothing and no one, we just cant be realistic on such complex topic and that is perfectly fine....i wish i could explain it better.
 
I think the best way to clear this whole thing up is this…..take some perfume from day creed or some other favorite of the people…..for me these perfumes don’t come close to my top agarwood and kyaras….however, if you go out in public and ask people, amateurs which smells better, be sure that 9/10 times they will all chose the perfume. If you expose these people to proper heating daily with really precious woods that will all change eventually they will realize why the agarwood/kyara woods smell better and richer.

To claim a kinamic note is “vanillic” or “orange blossom” or whatever anyone can think of from notes in nature is not what makes kyara kyara, it is a certain unexplainable backbone that only those who can see what is agarwood and what is not kyara will be able to see. Many times an agarwood can smell so amazing that sellers will try to sell it as kinam as Chinese do….but those who truly know the backbone of each type of kyara will know the difference.

Back to the “kinamic” in oils. How can anyone claim kinamic if the backbone is completely void? Just by using the flower notes and vanilla or whatnot? This is a fallacy in knowledge. People think that which makes kinam is a set of standard notes that are present in all kyara and this is not the truth.

So conclusion = to the common kinam smeller or those who are clueless to kinam, an agarwood oil can smell kinamic. These people can have really good noses when it comes to oils and explaining oil notes and stuff but that doesn’t make up for the lack of understanding of kyara. I know it sounds crazy because anyone can smell kyara and think they get it. I smelled a bunch of kyara I didn’t like which was linear, even those had some backbone unique to all agarwood. It’s just not something you can put to words. It is a certain richness background that makes all notes smell extra rich. . . It’s so hard to explain it because subjectively and objectively we are deceived easily by things
 
It was royal kinam ensar oud oil and back in those days I did see yellow kyara note. The thing about that oil is that it was like cocaine. I am not joking. For me at least who has a very blessed nervous system and nose, that oil Everytime I used it had me up to 7-8am and the effects were like cocaine. Yes in high school I did try that drug lol

Oud ertugrul is still the only oil that has more than 1 “kinamic” note and those notes RESEMBLE kyara notes they don’t actually smell like kyara notes…but tell me how a wood on the heater flashing a hundred notes at once can be compared to an oil even like ertugrul that has a couple notes resembling the real thing but not it. It is like comparing leeche to rose, the leeche has a rosy like effect in the nose kinda but it is not rose. It is like trying to compare mint to the cooling of a hainan wood on the heater, sure both are cooling but they are nothing alike.

Diser perfume LITERALLY uses kyara co2 they claim distilled could be cause this does smell like kyara and the ingredients they use complement the small amount of kyara oil they use to make it blow up 100x. I have evaporated 30ml and made 2g oil which is void a lot of the top notes diser used and it is crystal clear that kyara is used.

Agarwood oils have some notes that can resemble mint but they are NOT mint…same thing with the so called kinamic notes THEY ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE, especially if you do a side by side but the correct way. Smell the oil you feel smells like kinam, take 10 minutes off smelling anything, wash it off your hand and then heat kyara. You will be like ok no it doesn’t lol.

You have so much kyara from what I sent you, but it is not enough to realize much still because it is different to smelling 10-15 kyaras (even tho you have only heated a couple) and it is different having smelled 100+ kyaras and I have been smelling 100+ kyaras still I am learning new things about this wood that I can’t believe. Sure there exist kynam that are very poor grade and many agarwoods are way better aromatically speaking. Just because the high grade kyara is king doesn’t mean that the lower grade is also.

At the end of the day I love oils that resemble kyara even if they smell nothing alike it is the closest thing still… @Castingshadows if I am not mistaken is just being extremely realistic in saying that what he is smelling just really doesn’t exist in any oils he smelled. This is not just opinion bro. The cooling of kyara, the purple aroma, the sweet, the bitter, the spicy, etc etc etc in whatever other notes one sees, they are a different quality than the oils “kinamic resemblance” by light years and they are just a tiny hint of the number. To claim oils have true kinam notes is like saying I saw a guy who looks like you and he must have had the same personality and family members were named the same as your family members also you have to be a donkeys ass to say that. so a donkeys ass is not just someone saying his oil smell kinamic, but someone saying he smells identical kyara notes in his oil and who say that anyone that looks like someone else also have the same personality and his/her family members also have same name as the ones who looks alike...so dont start saying that i called any of you a donkey ass please.. I hope you and others realize what I’m saying lol

People need to stop comparing oranges to apples like JK says.

Agarwood oils are precious in their own way that kyara will never touch, and vise versa is true also. It is pure marketing scheme to use k, kyara, kinam to a agarwood oil period. Maybe the distiller is clueless about the depths of kyara and his nose was constantly drenched in King Kong size swipes that he just can’t tell the difference lmao this is much more likely. Heating 5-10 kyara you still have no idea.

What I find hilarious is that for so many years those people who would parrot kinamic and kyara and stuff like that had never smelled real kyara yet had an opinion on what kinamic oils were. The distillers who sold them would never ask that question tho would they bro?? Would they??? Of course not hahahaha cause they knew ridicule was around the corner but also knew that a couple people wouldn’t matter especially since the oils were nice generally speaking. So that’s all I can say.

Oils are unique, agarwood is unique, kyara is unique. The moment one starts branding stuff and selling it then we jump into the profit thing it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see why they brand and advertise their products as such. Don’t be a fool, be realistic.

Put it this way, take your favorite oil, now find me any wood that smells like it. Very unlikely to happen…there you go, your oil is a unicorn. Be happy with your oil the way it is and in its truth, it is just what it is and not kinamic 😛
So you're telling me that an oil described as smelling exactly like a chip on low heat is a blatant lie?!
PS: Don't answer that lol. Don't want to get everyone started on this now 😀
 
So you're telling me that an oil described as smelling exactly like a chip on low heat is a blatant lie?!
PS: Don't answer that lol. Don't want to get everyone started on this now 😀
It does if you have a chip on low heat and at the same time your smelling the oil obviously 🤣😂 try it with any wood you will be surprised how the mind plays tricks on you. Add any oil, add some fine wood kyara agarwood whatever you want, and smell them side by side. The fumes in the nose from the wood stick and you will think it’s the oil that smells that way. Then you will say it smells like the wood on low heat. It’s easy to trick yourself when you do things like that. Heck when I finish my heating wood sessions my nose is drenched and smells like the wood for another 15 minutes. Get it now 😛? Ya gotta think harder broski it’s really simple.

Regardless, royal kinam 2.0 is a amazing oil, but no, it is not kinam oil lmao I would never touch that oil again…it hits me like caffeine and I hate caffeine. It hits me like hard drugs and I am not joking it was like cocaine 🤣😂🤣😂 some oils relax me very much, others make me feel like I can throw up remembering the aroma, others give me bad headaches Everytime, others don’t do anything at all.

Agarwood oil is a beautiful thing. IT IS NOT KINAMIC IN ANY WAY even is it has some notes that both agarwood and kinam share like “vanillic” LMAO

See this is the thing, MOST people smell vanilla that they relate to cultivated kinam and they say oh it’s kinamic it’s kinamic…
 
Can anyone “kinamic” explain why not label the oil with cinnamon or lemon or other notes that the oil is much more abundant and loud in as they scream of these notes but rather chose the .001% of the notes of the oil to add label to the name of the oil 😌 could it be that lemon or cinnamon or powdery vanilla just isn’t as profitable and that kynam kyara explodes minds to curiosity? I THINK SO 😌
 
deleted my post because I misinterpreted a previous one
 
Hmm, I haven’t tried Kyara or Kinam but it seems like this discussion took a turn somewhere in the middle towards the marketing strategy behind the use of the word.

here’s an example, hotels usually market their services and stays with slogans like “live like a king at ####.” Or “####, royal hospitality.”

The idea behind it is simple, I want to tell you it’s the best without having to talk a lot.

The word “Kinamic” I believe is trying to do the same thing (I have never experienced royalty, or being treated like a king but I’ve been to some hospitality places where I sure thought I was, doesn’t mean it was exactly how kings and royals are treated but to me it felt or what I imagined it to be like” (I’ve been to hotels where I was robbed as well, point that I’m getting at is that I know both ends of the spectrum. Good and the bad when it comes to hospitality and claiming royalty or kingship hospitality is letting me know what to expect. Imagine a king going to one of these places and shouting at them for not actually doing it the way its supposed to be)

Again, we are all spoiled. Do you have any idea how many people use oud oil in the world? I’d say the majority of them may have never experienced actual wild Oud oil. And for the ones who did, it might’ve been the lowest bar. Meanwhile we are blessed to experience many legendary Oud oils from all vendors that if you even try to share it with the regular joes they’ll tell you “nah, this ain’t it” (from my experience with sharing high grade Oud oils with people who use Oud oil and wood as part of their culture) I find myself scratching my head sometimes when that happens.

In the end when a vendor is saying kinamic I understand that it is special.

Let do this small exercise, someone here mentioned that ertugul gazi Oud oil was a little bit Kinamic. Can you tell me another oil that is like it? My point in this question is that Kinamic or not the Oud oil you are description is unique. To wrap things up if I see a vendor writing Kinamic I immediately understand he’s saying this is special.

My humble 2 cents! Thank you everyone for your contributions!
 
This whole thing is an interesting lesson in human psychology on several levels... the main thing that stands out: when people get their education from marketing and advertising, words tend to lose their meaning over time, and it creates a little disinformation bubble that has to be popped every once in a while.

I think the previous post is accurate… Regardless of what we may say here, when reading a random description for a vendor we don't know we can no longer assume it means anything other than "special" (if even that at this point).
 
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Another thing worth saying, not necessarily the nicest thing to say but not directed with any animosity and definitely not intended to discourage reviews:

Your reviews should include some reference to the experience you're drawing on if you want them to contribute to the general understanding and not create little misinformation bubbles.

For example if I have only smelled three Malaysian oud oils in my life, I really can't say that I have any idea what Malaysian oud oil smells like in a general sense. I might have a good guess and I might be right but I can't really know without the broader experience. Someone like @Habz786
or @Al Shareef Oudh and the other experts here have the perspective to write expert reviews that relate specific oils to the general body of what is out there; those with less experience should be writing more "personal" reviews not expert reviews: what do you like? How does it relate to your experience and your collection? What does it remind you of and do you have any emotional or other reactions, etc..


Personal: "I just got this new Malaysian oil and it smells quite a bit like the other two that I have in my collection"

Expert: "I just got this new Malaysian oil and it is a classic Malaysian oud" and so on.

I think this another part of the issue with the use of kinam that is actually POSITIVE fundamentally but still degrading information - folks are learning and beginning to form insights about the different oils they are smelling and they are eager to participate and want to draw on the common language, but don't quite have the experience to do so.

This is a natural human instinct I believe the term sophomoric was invented for this. It's not meant to be degrading it's just part of the developmental process of learning about something and developing expertise.
 
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Another thing worth saying, not necessarily the nicest thing to say but not directed with any animosity and definitely not intended to discourage reviews:

Your reviews should include some reference to the experience you're drawing on if you want them to contribute to the general understanding and not create little misinformation bubbles.

For example if I have only smelled three Malaysian oud oils in my life, I really can't say that I have any idea what Malaysian oud oil smells like in a general sense. I might have a good guess and I might be right but I can't really know without the broader experience. Someone like @Habz786
or @Al Shareef Oudh and the other experts here have the perspective to write expert reviews that relate specific oils to the general body of what is out there; those with less experience should be writing more "personal" reviews not expert reviews: what do you like? How does it relate to your experience and your collection? What does it remind you of and do you have any emotional or other reactions, etc..


Personal: "I just got this new Malaysian oil and it smells quite a bit like the other two that I have in my collection"

Expert: "I just got this new Malaysian oil and it is a classic Malaysian oud" and so on.

I think this another part of the issue with the use of kinam that is actually POSITIVE fundamentally but still degrading information - folks are learning and beginning to form insights about the different oils they are smelling and they are eager to participate and want to draw on the common language, but don't quite have the experience to do so.

This is a natural human instinct I believe the term sophomoric was invented for this. It's not meant to be degrading it's just part of the developmental process of learning about something and developing expertise.
Very well put. Keeping this format in mind when writing about a product can only move us all forward, towards a shared understanding.
 
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