A Call To All "the Perfumist" Customers

[User]

I’d say if it’s smelling like a synthetic perfume … you have your answer.

Most folks once they get away from synthetics … when they do smell them - they stand out like a sore thumb.

Is it standard for vendors to have their oils GCMS tested? I have never asked for them in the past.

 

[Rename]

Is it standard for vendors to have their oils GCMS tested? I have never asked for them in the past.

At our scale size - no.

Just to give an example - if I were to send every single material I have on hand - let alone every bottle that’s passed through my hands - off for testing, it would equal roughly half of all the revenue I’ve made in a decade. That’s how much of a financial burden it would be to undertake.

It’s a discussion that we keep having because folks usually don’t understand the sheer cost. They also assume all is artisan vendors are rich. Sadly - We are not.

 

[User]

At our scale size - no.

Just to give an example - if I were to send every single material I have on hand - let alone every bottle that’s passed through my hands - off for testing, it would equal roughly half of all the revenue I’ve made in a decade. That’s how much of a financial burden it would be to undertake.

It’s a discussion that we keep having because folks usually don’t understand the sheer cost. They also assume all is artisan vendors are rich. Sadly - We are not.

Yeah, makes sense.

 

[Clyff6ix]

Is it standard for vendors to have their oils GCMS tested? I have never asked for them in the past.

I don't think it's standard. @Al Shareef Oudh gave a great explanation (maybe in this thread?) of the limitations of GCMS testing as a surefire gauge of authenticity or purity anyway.

Also The Perfumist does have some GCMS testing results posted but not for all oils. One such example is logged further back in this thread. @RisingPhoenix and The Perfumist had a back and forth about it.

The Perfumist did not post a GCMS for this oil that I could find: https://www.theperfumist.com/products/cambodian-royal-mix-cam-remarkable

 

[Rename]

I don't think it's standard. @Al Shareef Oudh gave a great explanation (maybe in this thread?) of the limitations of GCMS testing as a surefire gauge of authenticity or purity anyway.

Also The Perfumist does have some GCMS testing results posted but not for all oils. One such example is logged further back in this thread. @RisingPhoenix and The Perfumist had a back and forth about it.

The Perfumist did not post a GCMS for this oil that I could find: https://www.theperfumist.com/products/cambodian-royal-mix-cam-remarkable

It’s also easy enough to test something authentic - and then sell you shit.

And yes - there are quite a lot of limitations to testing. It’s not the perfect science everyone thinks it is. It’s why Dupes / Duas are usually 88-90% similar, at best. And those are testing largely synthetic fragrances! Naturals are infinitely more complex.

Simple markers like DPG / DEP stand out. But quite a few other things don’t.

And this is assuming the vendor is being honest and genuine. Like I said - can show a test and then still sell ya crap. Can tell you it’s a pure Oud and then sell you a pretty standard Gulf Market synthetic.

But then again - something could be 100% natural, and then be told it was distilled from the Sultan’s ball sac. Not like there’s anyone out there telling stories like that, either 🙄

 

[User]

It’s also easy enough to test something authentic - and then sell you shit.

And yes - there are quite a lot of limitations to testing. It’s not the perfect science everyone thinks it is. It’s why Dupes / Duas are usually 88-90% similar, at best. And those are testing largely synthetic fragrances! Naturals are infinitely more complex.

Simple markers like DPG / DEP stand out. But quite a few other things don’t.

And this is assuming the vendor is being honest and genuine. Like I said - can show a test and then still sell ya crap. Can tell you it’s a pure Oud and then sell you a pretty standard Gulf Market synthetic.

But then again - something could be 100% natural, and then be told it was distilled from the Sultan’s ball sac. Not like there’s anyone out there telling stories like that, either 🙄

Ballsack SQ is one of my favorite oils.

 

[Rogi_Again]

It’s also easy enough to test something authentic - and then sell you shit.

And yes - there are quite a lot of limitations to testing. It’s not the perfect science everyone thinks it is. It’s why Dupes / Duas are usually 88-90% similar, at best. And those are testing largely synthetic fragrances! Naturals are infinitely more complex.

Simple markers like DPG / DEP stand out. But quite a few other things don’t.

And this is assuming the vendor is being honest and genuine. Like I said - can show a test and then still sell ya crap. Can tell you it’s a pure Oud and then sell you a pretty standard Gulf Market synthetic.

But then again - something could be 100% natural, and then be told it was distilled from the Sultan’s ball sac. Not like there’s anyone out there telling stories like that, either 🙄

Wait… are there really pods out there from the Sultan’s ball sac? They’d be vintage so probably worth their weight in gold.

Do you know names of sources for these?

Asking for a friend

 

[Rename]

Ballsack SQ is one of my favorite oils.

Now I’m thinking I really need to make one …

SQ DeezNuts 2023

 

[EJayB]

I think as customers testing is novel and trust based so not quantifiable in monetary terms and of very little value however I think when distilling regularly…
I get a lot of value from testing and when I distill the oil it’s easy to send off a half gram of oud to understand it’s properties or a gram of sandalwood oil to fully see it’s diversity and levels beyond just its yield Testing including shipping of the oil is less then $250 a test
When added into my prices along with shipping Everything into California I’m still able to offer great value and that’s just my personal experience. I’m a hobby guy and definitely not wealthy or willing to invest on anything with no ROI. Testing has its greatest value to the distiller and if I was purchasing from anyone ( which I wouldn’t) more then a small amount at this point I’d test it for sure
It’s a brutal world out there when you put money into the equation

 

[User]

Now I’m thinking I really need to make one …

SQ DeezNuts 2023

It would be pretty ballsy to throw such rare and expensive ingredients into a still.

 

[Rename]

It would be pretty ballsy to throw such rare and expensive ingredients into a still.

I see what you did there 🤣

 

[Clyff6ix]

I think as customers testing is novel and trust based so not quantifiable in monetary terms and of very little value however I think when distilling regularly…
I get a lot of value from testing and when I distill the oil it’s easy to send off a half gram of oud to understand it’s properties or a gram of sandalwood oil to fully see it’s diversity and levels beyond just its yield Testing including shipping of the oil is less then $250 a test
When added into my prices along with shipping Everything into California I’m still able to offer great value and that’s just my personal experience. I’m a hobby guy and definitely not wealthy or willing to invest on anything with no ROI. Testing has its greatest value to the distiller and if I was purchasing from anyone ( which I wouldn’t) more then a small amount at this point I’d test it for sure
It’s a brutal world out there when you put money into the equation

I've heard Russian Adam say the same in a video. He said that he tests his material coming in. And then tests his material after he's distilled it because he has to have some objective way of measuring his own progress or development as a distiller. Even if there are variables, I can see how testing could provide useful data points for what I imagine is a fairly technical process.

 

[EJayB]

I've heard Russian Adam say the same in a video. He said that he tests his material coming in. And then tests his material after he's distilled it because he has to have some objective way of measuring his own progress or development as a distiller. Even if there are variables, I can see how testing could provide useful data points for what I imagine is a fairly technical process.

It’s really technical and I distill so many different way’s using different techniques and equipment I want to understand the results of each method on a technical level Always experimenting and expanding my knowledge and tests are helpful.
I can’t think of a good reason any distiller wouldn’t want to test his own work 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[Rogi_Again]

Now I’m thinking I really need to make one …

SQ DeezNuts 2023

I’d buy it…. But only if you put a SQ coat of arms symbol on the golden box.

Use some EO-Ish descriptors too. Copious musk that rivals the majestic aroma of royal Tonkin of yesteryear. Decadence personified. A large serving of post-coital sweat. Unearthly rose from depths of the underworld. Bedroom and ballroom combined in the most luxurious way possible. {Don’t shoot the messenger… I lifted those words from the website.}

Oh and don’t forget to tell us all about the depths and lengths you had to go to in order to acquire SQ DeezNuts from SQ. On second thought, don’t tell us. I don’t need to know the details. Also please talk about how limited the supply is… if anything can actually be limited, it’s probably DeezNuts.

 

[Rename]

I’d buy it…. But only if you put a SQ coat of arms symbol on the golden box.

Use some EO-Ish descriptors too. Copious musk that rivals the majestic aroma of royal Tonkin of yesteryear. Decadence personified. A large serving of post-coital sweat. Unearthly rose from depths of the underworld. Bedroom and ballroom combined in the most luxurious way possible. {Don’t shoot the messenger… I lifted those words from the website.}

Oh and don’t forget to tell us all about the depths and lengths you had to go to in order to acquire SQ DeezNuts from SQ. On second thought, don’t tell us. I don’t need to know the details. Also please talk about how limited the supply is… if anything can actually be limited, it’s probably DeezNuts.

I think we are on the verge of genius … sweaty, sweaty genius

 

[Rogi_Again]

I think we are on the verge of genius … sweaty, sweaty genius

Just add baby powder to the formula… some people smell that in musk anyways… so just say ‘it might smell like baby powder to those who are new to such extravagant scents but…’ the world will never know the truth.

Baby powder works for all the nuts in this house. It will work for SQ too.

 

[oudstronaut]

I've heard Russian Adam say the same in a video. He said that he tests his material coming in. And then tests his material after he's distilled it because he has to have some objective way of measuring his own progress or development as a distiller. Even if there are variables, I can see how testing could provide useful data points for what I imagine is a fairly technical process.

I’m curious about this. I suppose it depends on what your goals are when distilling. You have to know which aromatic compounds you are looking for… if you’re looking for agaruspirol, for instance, then you can probably find a way to increase the amount. But if you are trying to do something more broad like “capture the scent of these oud chips if they were being heated on a burner” or “capture the scent of the wood at room temp.” Then I suspect that it is still too complex to understand what causes something to smell that way through testing alone. But I’d be curious to hear @RisingPhoenix or any of the ouddict vendor’s take on if they think it would be helpful to do this testing for the aforementioned reason.

 

[User]

I’m curious about this. I suppose it depends on what your goals are when distilling. You have to know which aromatic compounds you are looking for… if you’re looking for agaruspirol, for instance, then you can probably find a way to increase the amount. But if you are trying to do something more broad like “capture the scent of these oud chips if they were being heated on a burner” or “capture the scent of the wood at room temp.” Then I suspect that it is still too complex to understand what causes something to smell that way through testing alone. But I’d be curious to hear @RisingPhoenix or any of the ouddict vendor’s take on if they think it would be helpful to do this testing for the aforementioned reason.

If you can find out what compounds are responsible for a particular scent, then you can hypothetically learn the properties of that compound and do a distillation that is specifically designed to remove it.

If there is one dominant compound responsible for the scent, and a bunch of minor compounds that are just supporting it, then it's a little easier to hone in on that one chemical. If it really is a complex scent with many compounds coming together to create it, then the process is greatly complicated. The process can even be complicated for a single compound. It's possible that some compounds are created in the heat of distillation, or in the bottle as it ages. Maybe they are stable in the wood, but break down quickly once it's distilled. This all complicates things further.

Agarwood is very complex with lots of aromatic compounds. Different woods are very different from each other. I imagine this is a very complicated process that would have to be done individually with each batch of agarwood. I think it would be easier to hone in on common compounds. If you can figure out which chemical is responsible for a particular note, like one of the common notes between IO Nha Trang Ultima and EO Nha Trang LTD, then you can apply that knowledge to other wood with the same compound. On the other hand, when you smell an oil with a note that is unlike anything you have smelled before, it is unlikely that anyone will study it any time soon. If it's rare enough, maybe it will never be found. It might be extinct in nature, and only exist in a few private collections.

That's my take anyways. Mind you I am not a distiller and I have never actually tried any of this. It's just theoretical, and it might be harder or easier than I am making it sound. By the way, it might be a step towards making more convincing synthetic oud.

 

[Rename]

I’m curious about this. I suppose it depends on what your goals are when distilling. You have to know which aromatic compounds you are looking for… if you’re looking for agaruspirol, for instance, then you can probably find a way to increase the amount. But if you are trying to do something more broad like “capture the scent of these oud chips if they were being heated on a burner” or “capture the scent of the wood at room temp.” Then I suspect that it is still too complex to understand what causes something to smell that way through testing alone. But I’d be curious to hear @RisingPhoenix or any of the ouddict vendor’s take on if they think it would be helpful to do this testing for the aforementioned reason.

My approach is very different …

My entire journey into medicine and perfumery started in the kitchen. I love to cook. Started my own catering company (a serendipitous accident - story for another time) when I was in college, catering for events up to 500 people. I was a featured Williams Sonoma chef at one point. I even filmed a pilot series for The Food Network with one of Martha Stewart’s producers not too long after college. We were about 10 years ahead of the food show curve, unfortunately. Seems like another life, sometimes …

I lived in southern France, in Avignon - as well as Paris, and Prague for a bit.

When I lived in Avignon - the capital of the Côtes du Rhône region - I studied wine making. It was incredible how they could taste a grape and know how good the harvest would be. They’d taste a newly vinted wine and know exactly which years would be best to Age and then drink it, depending on what flavors they wanted from it.

I mention this because I think in terms of cooking. Chefs don’t send off ingredients to test for active ingredients. They taste it. They smell it. They don’t need tests to know exceptional quality. They learn techniques and qualities that bring out flavor.

Testing helps with checking for adulterants, sure. But they aren’t fool proof. Nor are they necessarily necessary unless for a questionable batch of something.

Yes - some people think in terms of chemical constituents. I work in Chinese Medicine. I don’t think in reductionistic molecular terms. I think in functional terms. A finger is nothing without an arm, a shoulder, etc.

When I cook food - I taste it. I don’t send it off to a lab to tell me if it’s good.

 

[Rename]

Just add baby powder to the formula… some people smell that in musk anyways… so just say ‘it might smell like baby powder to those who are new to such extravagant scents but…’ the world will never know the truth.

Baby powder works for all the nuts in this house. It will work for SQ too.

And you know where baby powder is meant to be put …

On DeezNuts (SQ)!