A Call To All "the Perfumist" Customers

[oudstronaut]

If you can find out what compounds are responsible for a particular scent, then you can hypothetically learn the properties of that compound and do a distillation that is specifically designed to remove it.

Yes, but people have been trying to figure out which compounds are responsible for the scent of agarwood for decades. Not saying it’s impossible but it’s likely a combination of things.

Agarwood is very complex with lots of aromatic compounds. Different woods are very different from each other. I imagine this is a very complicated process that would have to be done individually with each batch of agarwood. I think it would be easier to hone in on common compounds. If you can figure out which chemical is responsible for a particular note, like one of the common notes between IO Nha Trang Ultima and EO Nha Trang LTD, then you can apply that knowledge to other wood with the same compound. On the other hand, when you smell an oil with a note that is unlike anything you have smelled before, it is unlikely that anyone will study it any time soon. If it's rare enough, maybe it will never be found. It might be extinct in nature, and only exist in a few private collections.

Ya, if you want all of your oils to smell like Nha Trang Ultima and Nha Trang LTD then you may be able to figure out the “common thread” and then design a distillation to bring that out. Perhaps apply it to a plantation oil and use it to make an amazing perfume I’m sure the applications are endless.

But what if what you are offering are a bunch of oils that smell very different?

 

[User]

Yes, but people have been trying to figure out which compounds are responsible for the scent of agarwood for decades. Not saying it’s impossible but it’s likely a combination of things.

Yeah, and even if they figured out all of the compounds for a specific oil, they sill wouldn't have every oil figured out. There is no compound or set of compounds responsible for the smell of all oud.

Ya, if you want all of your oils to smell like Nha Trang Ultima and Nha Trang LTD then you may be able to figure out the “common thread” and then design a distillation to bring that out. Perhaps apply it to a plantation oil and use it to make an amazing perfume I’m sure the applications are endless.

But what if what you are offering are a bunch of oils that smell very different?

Exactly. It would have a specific application, but we are very far from this method being better than the human experience in agarwood distillation. Even if we got pretty good at it, I think it would be a different experience from natural agarwood.

JK's cooking example is perfect. For thousands of years we have been cooking by doing things the way that humans do them. Then scientists came along and the started doing "food science". Now you have doritos, which are meant to roughly mimic natural things, and is meant to affect your brain in a way that makes you want to eat more of it. That is the scientific approach to food, which only large companies are able to do. It's kind of depressing and dystopian, really. Lays can make a potato chip that tastes like a pickle, but it's very different from an actual pickle. It seems unlikely that scientists will figure out all of this and then use that knowledge to make something exactly like real oud.

 

[Rename]

Yes, but people have been trying to figure out which compounds are responsible for the scent of agarwood for decades. Not saying it’s impossible but it’s likely a combination of things.



Ya, if you want all of your oils to smell like Nha Trang Ultima and Nha Trang LTD then you may be able to figure out the “common thread” and then design a distillation to bring that out. Perhaps apply it to a plantation oil and use it to make an amazing perfume I’m sure the applications are endless.

But what if what you are offering are a bunch of oils that smell very different?

Eh, maybe. The people making those oils do so through technique. Not through lab tests.

Like I said - it’s just not how I think. It’s not how I compose fragrances.

I’ve won awards and done projects for much larger companies in North America, the Gulf, and India. Never once was I looking at lab tests, outside of when I’ve had to compose within IFRA Compliant guidelines.

Lab tests in big companies are used for :

1. Testing for adulterants - especially since they are buying in barrels (55 gallon drums) or by the ton.

2 Standardization. One of these reasons I don’t use too many “big company” oils is they are standardized. People who try my oils can tell a difference in the quality. And often - my guidelines for quality aren’t within the peaks usually used to measure commercially - but in the diversity of minor components. Components which often aren’t even measurable. Big companies standardize oils so they can sell consistently within their company’s or the industries standards. Artisan oils aren’t standardized. That’s why we all sell unique, exceptional Batches. At least that’s MY goal. Can’t speak for everyone else …

3. IFRA - testing is done for compliance. None of us here are compliant. So why do I care how much Saffrole is in my Saffron? I’m gonna use however much I feel is called for.

Getting it yet?

 

[Rogi_Again]

And you know where baby powder is meant to be put …

On DeezNuts (SQ)!

Yup… but nobody on this forum should take my advice on this topic. As most of you know, I don’t even have my own nuts. I’m only an associate to nuts. There are nuts in my vicinity but they are not mine.

Anywho. If you build it, I will buy it.

 

[Rename]

Yeah, and even if they figured out all of the compounds for a specific oil, they sill wouldn't have every oil figured out. There is no compound or set of compounds responsible for the smell of all oud.


Exactly. It would have a specific application, but we are very far from this method being better than the human experience in agarwood distillation. Even if we got pretty good at it, I think it would be a different experience from natural agarwood.

JK's cooking example is perfect. For thousands of years we have been cooking by doing things the way that humans do them. Then scientists came along and the started doing "food science". Now you have doritos, which are meant to roughly mimic natural things, and is meant to affect your brain in a way that makes you want to eat more of it. That is the scientific approach to food, which only large companies are able to do. It's kind of depressing and dystopian, really. Lays can make a potato chip that tastes like a pickle, but it's very different from an actual pickle. It seems unlikely that scientists will figure out all of this and then use that knowledge to make something exactly like real oud.

Yeah, that’s it exactly … and those big companies are also trying to make every single chip taste the same by magnitudes of billions. Standardization 😉

The goal of artisans is for every batch to be unique. NOT to standardize the scent.

Cooks train to learn TECHNIQUE. Exceptional cooks have techniques others don’t have. Yes, it’s partly quality ingredients. Yes, it’s also partly equipment. But more than anything - people have technique that can pull and create flavor where others cannot.

Don’t believe me? Just go eat at a Michelyn restaurant. Or grandma’s. It’s about technique more than anything.

Come eat with me - and I’ll show you exactly what I’m talking about. I’ll do it with food. I’ll do it with tea. You’ll understand exactly what I’m getting at when you taste it.

 

[oudstronaut]

h

Yeah, and even if they figured out all of the compounds for a specific oil, they sill wouldn't have every oil figured out. There is no compound or set of compounds responsible for the smell of all oud.


Exactly. It would have a specific application, but we are very far from this method being better than the human experience in agarwood distillation. Even if we got pretty good at it, I think it would be a different experience from natural agarwood.

JK's cooking example is perfect. For thousands of years we have been cooking by doing things the way that humans do them. Then scientists came along and the started doing "food science". Now you have doritos, which are meant to roughly mimic natural things, and is meant to affect your brain in a way that makes you want to eat more of it. That is the scientific approach to food, which only large companies are able to do. It's kind of depressing and dystopian, really. Lays can make a potato chip that tastes like a pickle, but it's very different from an actual pickle. It seems unlikely that scientists will figure out all of this and then use that knowledge to make something exactly like real oud.

Haha what you’re saying about potato chips is just spot-on and it’s exactly what we see happening with oud, and fragrance in general. As most of us know, an oud accord is very different from ACTUAL oud just like a potato chip meant to taste like pickles is very different from a real pickle. And as we witnessed earlier in this thread, it can be very obvious when an oud oil is “enhanced” with synthetics.

 

[language scent]

well....i received the "pure kyara" oils from "the perfumist".....the vietnamese one smells very nice, NOTHING LIKE KINAM, but like a perfume that you can def smell the synthetic in it...it seems as if he distilled honey and added some spices and god(your choice of which one) knows what else.

the japanese one is smelling like a chemical with 1% elegance in it.

now, the crazy thing of it all is that just smelling these i got extreme mind numb that got pretty hardcore. what i found strange is that it didnt give me a headache at all, but more like mind buzzed the crap out of my consciousness and i really felt like my brain was up in the clouds. however aroma of this one is just garbage...

i am in shock at the prices he has for these things. i am in shock that after talking on the phone with this guy for 1hour and it seemed he knew a bit about kinam , then sent me these free and even paid ups shipping all free and each sample like .3g....i am in shock how he went through with it knowing it was chemicals with some unknown aroma things. i was mind numbed for maybe 2days and then for a week i didnt feel like myself.

together these are like .6g probably. maybe i can send them to some lab and see wtf he did. even writing this post i feel anxiety thinking about the effects those things gave me and also very anxious thinking how bad it could have been if i put it on my skin. could have been braindamaged if i added to skin. the day i used it i def felt braindamage in a way but i did have many dreams. very strange stuff def not something to play around with or even smell.

very scary character, very scary stuff. this scary thought went through my head that this guy is some psycho working for big pharma putting toxic chemicals in these things. whats even more bonkers is that when we talked on the phone i told him i see that he has sold 1 of each of the "kinam oils" but dont see any reviews. days later poof reviews pop up from someone claiming to be some chinese collector and they bash on ouddict people

EXTREEEEEME PSYCHOTIC SHIT LADIES AND GENTS.
many people use synthetics no problem, me i have trained my body to be like a canary in a mine...i feel even in water i drink if something is in it. in general the things i consume dont bother me because the things i know to be clean i have been using for many many years. the cleaner the body gets the more sensitive it becomes to poisons.

i didnt even bother to get in touch with those people and neither did they get in touch with me to ask how i felt, obviously they know i know. i will be sending the oil to an advanced research facility to see what kind of toxins are in these things. its crazy im here actually feeling guilt for saying these things because of how grateful i was for this guys intentions and free samples/shipping. but i couldnt keep quiet any longer. these people are legit liars and psychopaths.

 

[EJayB]

well....i received the "pure kyara" oils from "the perfumist".....the vietnamese one smells very nice, NOTHING LIKE KINAM, but like a perfume that you can def smell the synthetic in it...it seems as if he distilled honey and added some spices and god(your choice of which one) knows what else.

the japanese one is smelling like a chemical with 1% elegance in it.

now, the crazy thing of it all is that just smelling these i got extreme mind numb that got pretty hardcore. what i found strange is that it didnt give me a headache at all, but more like mind buzzed the crap out of my consciousness and i really felt like my brain was up in the clouds. however aroma of this one is just garbage...

i am in shock at the prices he has for these things. i am in shock that after talking on the phone with this guy for 1hour and it seemed he knew a bit about kinam , then sent me these free and even paid ups shipping all free and each sample like .3g....i am in shock how he went through with it knowing it was chemicals with some unknown aroma things. i was mind numbed for maybe 2days and then for a week i didnt feel like myself.

together these are like .6g probably. maybe i can send them to some lab and see wtf he did. even writing this post i feel anxiety thinking about the effects those things gave me and also very anxious thinking how bad it could have been if i put it on my skin. could have been braindamaged if i added to skin. the day i used it i def felt braindamage in a way but i did have many dreams. very strange stuff def not something to play around with or even smell.

very scary character, very scary stuff. this scary thought went through my head that this guy is some psycho working for big pharma putting toxic chemicals in these things. whats even more bonkers is that when we talked on the phone i told him i see that he has sold 1 of each of the "kinam oils" but dont see any reviews. days later poof reviews pop up from someone claiming to be some chinese collector and they bash on ouddict people

EXTREEEEEME PSYCHOTIC SHIT LADIES AND GENTS.
many people use synthetics no problem, me i have trained my body to be like a canary in a mine...i feel even in water i drink if something is in it. in general the things i consume dont bother me because the things i know to be clean i have been using for many many years. the cleaner the body gets the more sensitive it becomes to poisons.

i didnt even bother to get in touch with those people and neither did they get in touch with me to ask how i felt, obviously they know i know. i will be sending the oil to an advanced research facility to see what kind of toxins are in these things. its crazy im here actually feeling guilt for saying these things because of how grateful i was for this guys intentions and free samples/shipping. but i couldnt keep quiet any longer. these people are legit liars and psychopaths.

It sounds like you found out exactly what everyone has said .
The guy is very luck he hasn’t been sued yet!!
Selling chemicals to put on Your body under the assumption they are natural and at that price !!! Probably no problem receiving a judgment in a Texas courtroom as fraud is a crime

 

[language scent]

It sounds like you found out exactly what everyone has said .
The guy is very luck he hasn’t been sued yet!!
Selling chemicals to put on Your body under the assumption they are natural and at that price !!! Probably no problem receiving a judgment in a Texas courtroom as fraud is a crime

lol man i cant believe that kinam oil "the shogun of japan" it is like a pure chemical aroma, literally nothing aromatic about it, pure chemical. i dont get it, isnt he afraid someone will buy a bottle for 900$ and sue the crap out of him??? this guy has been published in many magazines, this rings many bells in my book, he has connections. i would not be surprised is he has caused many people cancer and these people clueless how they got it, i mean that oil smelled like acid and bitterness in a very chemical way. the other one smelled like honey, spices and chemicals. wtf is wrong with these clowns? if i was in texas i would gear up in some ninja gear and wait for this clown to come out of his building and literally KO him and put these vials up his you know what. man he sat there 1hour lying to us both him and i both and he sent this garbage......what a psycho

 

[language scent]

i never expected these things to be real, i expected some kinam attar without the chemicals and was curious to see if this guy was an artist. he said these oils have the effects of smelling kinam, they bombed my mind numbing the crap out of me, i wonder how he did it. but this, i didnt expect it to be that bad

 

[EJayB]

You should thank him for his free samples and let him know exactly what you think about them .
He gives vendors a bad name !!
Most vendors take pride in finding the best products they can for their customers and want the customers to be satisfied, these guys just either don’t care or feel the customer is to uninformed to know the difference .

 

[Rename]

lol man i cant believe that kinam oil "the shogun of japan" it is like a pure chemical aroma, literally nothing aromatic about it, pure chemical. i dont get it, isnt he afraid someone will buy a bottle for 900$ and sue the crap out of him??? this guy has been published in many magazines, this rings many bells in my book, he has connections. i would not be surprised is he has caused many people cancer and these people clueless how they got it, i mean that oil smelled like acid and bitterness in a very chemical way. the other one smelled like honey, spices and chemicals. wtf is wrong with these clowns? if i was in texas i would gear up in some ninja gear and wait for this clown to come out of his building and literally KO him and put these vials up his you know what. man he sat there 1hour lying to us both him and i both and he sent this garbage......what a psycho

Well - keep in mind those magazine articles are usually paid advertisements, and he also uses a publicist. Many companies do this - it’s how they get all the coverage in bigger magazines.

Put another way - all that magazine coverage doesn’t happen organically.

 

[Clyff6ix]

Well - keep in mind those magazine articles are usually paid advertisements, and he also uses a publicist. Many companies do this - it’s how they get all the coverage in bigger magazines.

Put another way - all that magazine coverage doesn’t happen organically.

What magazines are we talking about? Are there Oud trade magazines?

 

[language scent]

You should thank him for his free samples and let him know exactly what you think about them .
He gives vendors a bad name !!
Most vendors take pride in finding the best products they can for their customers and want the customers to be satisfied, these guys just either don’t care or feel the customer is to uninformed to know the difference .

nah i wont spend even a second on him. im sure he will be checking the forum, i am sure he knows about this post.if you are reading this, you are garbage myfriend, a psychotic lying rat who poisons people...pure naturals....you joke

 

[language scent]

Well - keep in mind those magazine articles are usually paid advertisements, and he also uses a publicist. Many companies do this - it’s how they get all the coverage in bigger magazines.

Put another way - all that magazine coverage doesn’t happen organically.

for sure. i still think he like fast food and candy industry are branches of big pharma planting seeds for future gains.

 

[Rename]

You should thank him for his free samples and let him know exactly what you think about them .
He gives vendors a bad name !!
Most vendors take pride in finding the best products they can for their customers and want the customers to be satisfied, these guys just either don’t care or feel the customer is to uninformed to know the difference .

The other thing people should keep in mind - he claims to be GC’ing the oils, claims it proves they are natural - and then sells obviously synthetic stuff.

So this is NOT a case of mistakenly selling an occasional adulterated product.

This is a case of knowingly and intentionally lying and deceiving his clients. He’s drinking his own Koolaid.

 

[EJayB]

Agreed this guy is a fraud and as such all of his testing is of no value , testing only has value to honest people seeking deeper information and understanding.

 

[Rename]

What magazines are we talking about? Are there Oud trade magazines?

LoL - stuff like Men’s Health.

I think he’s got some info about it on his webpage

 

[Clyff6ix]

LoL - stuff like Men’s Health.

I think he’s got some info about it on his webpage

🤦‍♂️

 

[iori]

guy trying too hard, buying cultivated kinam from kevin, kyarashrine etc without even changing the label or jars and goes..
"We bring you this elusive treasure directly from the source, bypassing the typical supply chain to keep its price within reach without compromising on quality. Offering both Kinam powder and bead remnants, we ensure that each form is of the highest quality, aromatic, and oil-rich. Procured from the lush jungles of Hainan and small Farms in China, our Kinam is 100% Chinese, grown in naturally simulating environments for discerning private clients and Japanese companies specializing in high-end Kinam wood and jewelry."

"This exact piece has been lab test, from a major USA lab through a full GC/MS/FID Analysis, you will receive the full lab test with a reference number both documented and authenticated proving that this is a genuine Kinam wood, additionally you will receive a botanist constituent description and reference confirming that this is a genuine Kinam wood, finally you will receive a hand signed certification from the owner and master perfumist of the house that this is a genuine"

honestly his site good for laughing, just make sure to bring popcorn lol=/