Saudalhajri
True Ouddict
Interesting. Why would it oxidize the content? I thought kuppis were airtight, and just “wick” away the moisture slowly through the pores.
Attar/Mukhallat of the Day
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mesOUD
Resident Artisan
Main purpose of preferring kuppis are oxidation
They are breathing dear
Faris
True Ouddict
Skin = pores
Pores get rid of moisture = pores welcome oxygen
Diff animal skin = diff size pores
Kuppis = Thaqeel oils
Thaqeel oils = least moisture, most oxidation
Faris
True Ouddict
They do, but for furniture & apparel.
It’s called patent leather. I’m sure you’ve seen dress shoes worn with a tuxedo.
mesOUD
Resident Artisan
Situation is not like this
Only option is kuppi and they accept the situation.
No,old people really know what they do,they know chemistry behind works,how oxidation effects ingredients
And for which items they use kuppi and for which,they not
So they especially prefer kuppis dor the oils they know oxidation effects well.
Mr.P
oud<3er
Going to try to make some ittr... Is it acceptable to use that spelling by the way? Some day I hope make attars that are worthy of the noses here, but for now getting started with some entry level attars for the local market, so am making compromises on quality while still making a fundamentally sound fully volatile fragrance without any fixed oils, alcohol, etc. One compromise i am making is to use a carrier so i can price 6ml bottles in the $50-$70 range (no one's going to be buying $200 bottles where i sell stuff).
For the first batch I am using pure Santalol natural isolate as the carrier. I also have large bottles of copaiba and amyris (which is a little bit too strong to my nose and which I also associate with adulterated oud).
santalol isolate is very bland compared to Sandalwood oil - it must just be alpha santalol - but that makes it useful in this case, as does the lower price compared to plantation sandalwood oil. The pic is of different single note dilutions in santalol - rose, jasmine sambac absolute, jasmine sambac distillate (my own), orris butter, jasmine grandiflorum, etc. these are all 90% santalol by weight - diluted stock for blending experiments. I did them all at the same % to get an understanding of performance. I do my alcohol-based experiments at 10% as well, and making these at that same percentage provides a learning opportunity.
Would much prefer to be making these in a fine sandalwood oil but that will be down the line a ways.
So these are all my mukhs of the day for today.
For the first batch I am using pure Santalol natural isolate as the carrier. I also have large bottles of copaiba and amyris (which is a little bit too strong to my nose and which I also associate with adulterated oud).
santalol isolate is very bland compared to Sandalwood oil - it must just be alpha santalol - but that makes it useful in this case, as does the lower price compared to plantation sandalwood oil. The pic is of different single note dilutions in santalol - rose, jasmine sambac absolute, jasmine sambac distillate (my own), orris butter, jasmine grandiflorum, etc. these are all 90% santalol by weight - diluted stock for blending experiments. I did them all at the same % to get an understanding of performance. I do my alcohol-based experiments at 10% as well, and making these at that same percentage provides a learning opportunity.
Would much prefer to be making these in a fine sandalwood oil but that will be down the line a ways.
So these are all my mukhs of the day for today.
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Ahmaoud
True Ouddict
Love the conversation on Kuppis, it reminds me of an oil I purchased from Sokkat Al Teeb which was mentioned to be buried underground inside a Kuppi, specifically this one, or reading the description now, was processed in a such a way, as to make it seem, that it had been. Beautiful oil but still no where near other aged Crassnas I enjoy.
Mr.P
oud<3er
What an intriguing way to store an oil and allow it to breathe at the same time. I'm sure there would be a market simply for the empty bottles, assuming they aren't immediately reused.
Ahmaoud
True Ouddict
I haven't seen used bottles being sold, the majority I've seen have been for Ruh Khus, so those bottles probably couldn't be used for anything else, but it's a very neat idea. They can also get very large, like 5 tola bottles and I think shipping them is an issue because they could easily be damaged.
I wonder if people are okay with adding blends which contain musk and ambergris in such bottles (because they'd presumably get stuck in the pores)? There's a concept of "Artisan's Clay" which is the settled solids of musk and ambergris from macerations, and I've heard that's often reused, assuming the new blend is the same or close enough.
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Saudalhajri
True Ouddict
From my understanding its an oud oil made from old stock oud wood from thailand. And distilled traditionally in saudi arabia, in a way that makes the end result resemble how kuppi aged oud smells and looks.
Saudalhajri
True Ouddict
It is -or was- used. Ambergris and musk are too precious and rare not to be reused multiple times.
I recall this story :
In "Nishwar al-Muhadara wa Akhbar al-Mudhakarah" (1/294):
He said to me: I used to buy her fine Dubaiqiyah clothes, which they called [95 B] "shoe clothes." This was because they were thick and cut to the size of made-to-order shoes. They would be coated with musk and melted amber, then solidified. Between every two layers of clothing, they would place a fragrant substance with a firm consistency. We would do this with many layers, wrapping some over others. Then, the edges would be sealed with something made from amber and glued until the whole thing became like one piece. The outer layer would be smooth and white, stitched around with silk. We would make for it a "shirk" (a type of decorative strap), all made of silk, like straps woven from leather, and it would be worn.
He said: The lady’s shoes were made from this material, and she wouldn’t wear a pair of shoes for more than ten days, or thereabouts, until they would wear out, disintegrate, and the equivalent of several dinars would be spent on their cost, only to be discarded. The servants, or others, would take them and extract the amber and musk from them, which alone would be worth a considerable amount of dinars.
and another one (from the same book):
An Example of Caliph Al-Muqtadir's Extravagance
Abu Al-Qasim Al-Juhani informed me:
Al-Muqtadir wanted to enjoy drinking in a garden filled with narcissus flowers, located in a small courtyard of one of his many palaces. Someone responsible for the garden said: "The way to strengthen this narcissus before the caliph drinks in its presence is to fertilize it a few days beforehand, so that it will flourish and become more beautiful."
But Al-Muqtadir responded: "Woe to you! You want to use dung for something that I plan to smell?"
The gardener said: "This is the usual practice for anything that we want to strengthen and enhance its growth."
Al-Muqtadir asked: "And what is the reason for that?"
The gardener replied: "The fertilizer nourishes and protects the plants, helping them grow and bloom."
Al-Muqtadir then said: "We shall nourish it without fertilizer!" He then ordered that an amount of musk, equivalent to the amount of fertilizer needed for the garden, be crushed and used as the fertilizer.
He spent the day and night drinking in the garden, and even drank there the next morning. When he finished, he ordered that the garden be looted.
The gardeners and servants descended upon the narcissus, uprooting the plants along with the soil to extract the musk, until the garden was completely barren.
A huge sum of money was spent on the cost of the musk (after it was extracted and sold).
Ahmaoud
True Ouddict
Not in this Nagaland, it was custom distillation for Sulaym if I'm not mistaken, I wrote about it here. But I do have a tendency to tolerate, and even enjoy a lot of barn, without actually knowing that's what I'm enjoying. So what I characterize as safe might not be safe for everyone. Though Aqsa (the name of this Oud) can safely be considered a low barn Hindi, but a lot of depth and the soul of the wood present (in contrast to very clean Hindis)
Loulikesoud
True Ouddict
Isobionics (owned by BASF) makes a fermentation santalol product that while not sandalwood, can be dressed up or down with sandalwood ACs / other naturals to make a great base (if you're into such a thing). It's about $450-500 / kg, vs 1800-2000 / kg for decent S. Album plantation oil. I think many more perfume houses are starting to go this direction...
Mr.P
oud<3er
That's what I'm using for my blending experiments here. It's a great neutral carrier. The supplier I got it from no longer carries it however so I need to find another source.
Loulikesoud
True Ouddict
Call BASF. Can provide a contact
Mr.P
oud<3er
I don't think I am able to meet their MOQ!
Saudalhajri
True Ouddict
Not really an attar per se , I call it “Jungle Juice”. A mixture of remnants. It started as an empty bottle that used to contain musk grains. I couldn’t get the musk dust stuck on the walls so I just poured a couple drops of Koh Kong oud oil. Then I realized it’s too little and too thick, so I added 2ml of alcohol.
Now whenever I transfer an oil and some remains, I just squirt a little alcohol and shake it, then pour it in the Jungle Juice. Used a toothpick to get oil out? Throw the toothpick in the jungle juice. Have a speck of amber? Throw it in, a few drops left in a decant bottle? Pour it in the jungle juice!
I haven’t smelled it yet, it’s still relatively fresh. But just smelling the bottle it’s almost all musk and alcohol. I’ll see how it evolves over time!
Anyone else have a jungle juice?
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