Al Shareef Oudh

Master Perfumer
A friend has told me that some noise is being generated on the side walk to try and derail this discussion. I just want to make a kind request to all those who support Al Shareef, our dear clients, friends and supporters, please do not get dragged into the dirty games that have started over at Gaharu. Please continue this discussion constructively. Let them hate on us, it is always the same individuals, whenever we as a community get into a fruitful dialogue it is the same people who try to turn it into a fight to create a distraction. Informed consumers is what we want.

I also want to say, that whilst brother Shabby has opted not to post here, he has clarified in private what his intent was, he was very kind and polite may Allah bless him.

@Rasoul Salehi

I want to commend you for your professional approach to this topic. It can be very easy to turn away from the topic once it gets difficult and to aim at the individual. Bravo to you for maintaining the focus on the topic.

Bingo. Now in your own experience and let's put cost aside for a moment. Let's assume we can pass that fully on to the consumer. Does such high resin wood (not most appropriate for oil be of economical reasons) yield amazing oil? I am not necessarily talking categorically as I am sure some do some don't but do some of these oils in your experience make it worth while purely from scent complexity point of view (not cost)?

Yes and now, distillers will tell you that sometimes they have put the most resinous wood in the pot and the other end a horrible oil has been produced. I think the notes that you are talking about is not just the wood, rather the technique as well. This is why I mentioned earlier on, in the distillation process using terms like auxiliary are incorrect, because the process itself is applied to create those unique top notes. Otherwise we would just burn woods and not bother about the oils.

Dear jawed @Al Shareef Oudh I find myself in disagreement with the part of your post that basically suggests if an oil is made from agarwood but doesn't follow the path of tradition or what oudh(with h) is known for then is not oudh and basically a different name or perfume should be replacing it. Pardon me for paraphrasing and maybe not 100% capturing your point but I think for the purposes of this discussion and to keep things simple and light and engaging for the entire community( things have gotten a bit too serious and dry, no?) here is my thought:

I would have loved to talk spirit and wine technique changes over decades and centuries (yet results are still called wine and whiskey or single malt despite changes) and compare this to oudh vs oud and basically classics (oils adhering to tradition) vs this whole genre of call it Gen 3 or oleo or whatever and I'll be happy to do this in private with you over email but For now I am going to use a different layman analogy: steak evolution or maybe you call it revolution.

On that note Pls watch the movie steak (r) evolution. Is on Netflix.

The way I see it, your argument is basically suggesting b/c for generations steak constituted of let's say casterated male cattle around the age of 2, and then the meat then had to be dry aged for 30-45 days and then cooked on charcoal and that was steak anywhere and everywhere you would have and if outside of it it shouldn't be called steak. if some dude cooks it sous vide and then pan fry it, it shouldn't be called steak and is a different thing. Or how about grill vs BBQ. Gas vs charcoal. Wet aged vs dry aged. Angus vs wagyu breed. Casterated vs non casterated. Veal vs beef. Age of cattle... where do we draw the line?

Apologies if my expression was not clear, and i will try to explain further, here is what I originally wrote;

As with the genres of oils, and the techniques employed, I think is a very interesting topic. I remember in one of the threads Respect @Rai Munir made some comments regarding the origin of the word oudh, and the physical origin of the wood oudh. I believe understanding those terms within their context, origins, the intent behind the word, the application of the word and substance will in fact help us now identify the correct genre for some of these oils.


I know some of the oils that we smell today in the market would not fit the genre of oudh as a smell in the classical context. Yes they maybe distilled from oudh, yet they do not fit the genre of oudh in the context of where the word came from and the expected smell, within that tradition. So maybe we do need to define a perfumery genre for such oils and not an oudh genre. Here I am not referring to the oils you or Shabby mention, rather I am saying in more broader terms.


The examples you give are really helpful in explaining what I am trying to say. For example steaks have so many different cuts, cooking methods and how well the are done. The final cooked steak is defined specifically by a combination of those, and more broadly as steak. For example Ribeye Steak, is a steak however it is also known as Spencer, Delmonico, Scotch fillet and so forth. Further more depending on how it is cooked, there are some other additions to be more specific about the name.

Our context today is very different to the context of a few decades ago, let alone centuries. Therefore it should not be surprising that some of the oudhs in the market today would not be Oudh in the classical context. This is why I suggested that maybe we can define those oils outside of the classical genre with some perfumery genres, for example floral oudhs, ethereal oudhs. This is done more based on a region at present and less on a genre. Though you will see some vendors use such terminology intermittently.

You further mention

Here is how I see it: these genre of oils still carry the signature And spirit of agarwood. If they had zero resemblance I could see your point but personally I still stay undecided if the community should accept them as Oudh or not. I haven't made up my mind on that yet. But so long as there is a resemblance and I can tell you out of all my samples all but one (and that is likely to my relative new exposure to oud) do, what is the issue? I am genuinely interested in your way of thinking As I have tremendous respect for you and your vast experience in this field.

I don't think one can throw any oil that has that physical association to the oudh tree out from being a oudh oil. Rather what my view is that there is a classical understanding of Oudh as per those who it originated from. Then there is the evolution of oudh over time (this continues today) more so with the introduction of Organic and plantation oudh.. It is important that each phase of that journey from when it began to where it is today is understood by the parameters and merits that made it unique.

Not only these oils have resemblance to classics( not ideal word but traditional isn't either. I am without appropriate word. Maybe status quo oils?) but In fact I think the proponents argue that they are delving deeper into capturing the truth and real essence of agarwood minus the other notes that can come about by various techniques (this has been called auxiliary. I now personally think the term is not the best and rather accessory notes is better).

It is understandable that the proponents would do that, and say it is the best thing under the sun, as does Ferrari over Lamborghini, and Lamborghini, but there is a objective way to compare, list the pros and cons of each and weight they up.

This whole movement in oud/oudh Is almost mirroring a movement started in the wine world called: natural wine. These are wines that the makers don't even believe putting in new or even 2-3 year old used oak barrels. The vessel the wine going to age in has to be neutral. Very many years used barrels. Stain steel. Concrete tanks. Clay amphora... they are about a minimalist pure less is more movement. I see many similarities in not only philosophy but actual end product of this genre of oils and these genre of wines.

I agree that such efforts by vendors to try and say OuD and not Oudh is another effort to be exclusive and only further confuse the market.

Pls note they are still called wine. Just referred to as natural wine. Like apple vs organic apple(bio) or biodynamic apple. All still apple.

I am not great with words today and in a rush to get this thought out as I have a long evening and few busy days ahead. I didn't want to delay in responding longer but not being as eloquent and to the point as I wanted to. Pardon me for that.

I hope the message came across even 90%.

wish you luck with whatever you are doing and thank you for the engaging discussion. look forward to your response
 

Nikhil S

Resident Reviewer
Enlightening discussions. I used to think people refer to the woody notes in the oil as smell of oleoresin like true oud which you also get from burning it. And these secondary notes like florals, minty vapours were considered auxilliary. We are unnecessarily pondering on this topic I feel. But I have raised this query on the other forum too. Will someone really tell me honestly and in non-oxfordian debate style language, is resin a part of oil distillation ? I as a consumer and appreciator need to know if the dark black woods I burn really go into thw making of the oil ? I know the Indian distillation system. The traditional distillation what is used and what is said to be used. I want to learn about hardcore artisanal distiallations. It will be really helpful to all of us. And a frank discussion will be immensely helpful. Because, ultimately oils do speak for themselves. Sometimes I have loved plain so called organic distillation so much. No love lost. Please someone really distilling give me an answer. It is necessary to my education of understanding something so dear to me. Oud or Oudh is a perpective. And both are fine with me if they arw in line with my taste and budget. Thanks.
 

firdaous

Oud Kinamic
Sorry for my ignorance but I never see "oleoresin" used for some of the greatest : Royale I, Sultani, Borneo3000,Kyara Koutan, Thaqeel and kalakassi, Cambodi KSSS, Royal Pursat, Adhirajya etc....Maybe I am lost in translation here or maybe those oils speak for themselves:D
 

Nikhil S

Resident Reviewer
Sorry for my ignorance but I never see "oleoresin" used for some of the greatest : Royale I, Sultani, Borneo3000,Kyara Koutan, Thaqeel and kalakassi, Cambodi KSSS, Royal Pursat, Adhirajya etc....Maybe I am lost in translation here or maybe those oils speak for themselves:D
Very fine examples of oils speaking for themselves. I enjoy some really affordable oils too. But we are loolking the science and process of Ouds. Kalakassi oils are blended anyway. They used to mention that before. Regardless, Oleoresin/resin/agar. Call it what you may but is it really used to distill oils ? Like does incense grade wood go into making of the oils or is it incense grade dust with some moderately infected wood forming the major part of the distillation ? It wouls be interesting to know. I am not aware of the G1 G5 processes because the long oxfordian posts were not straight to the point.
 

Nikhil S

Resident Reviewer
@Nikhil S bhai if someone makes you understand clearly what "oleoresin" means and it's benefit for the Oud community, please share it with us since I don't get it despite all my humble efforts :cool: :Cautious:
I am trying my best on both forums. Lets see Firdaous bhai. I know how things go in Assam. I want what s the difference with artisanal part. Like how they trap the resin in liquid form ? One thing I have learnt from my experience is burning Oud is a totally different ballgame. Like Sandalwood oil and sandalwood smell the same. Is it same with Oud ? If not whats the purpose of distillation ? Or is it like Hashish vs Marijuana thing ? Easy to carry and apply.
 

firdaous

Oud Kinamic
Something I am agree with : "This is the reason why oils that were distilled 20 or 30 years ago using crude apparatus and techniques but from awesome high grade wood will dominate a more contemporary oil distilled using superior apparatus and techniques but inferior wood.
The ultimate champion? The best wood and apparatus and techniques" (Taha quote)
 

Nikhil S

Resident Reviewer
Something I am agree with : "This is the reason why oils that were distilled 20 or 30 years ago using crude apparatus and techniques but from awesome high grade wood will dominate a more contemporary oil distilled using superior apparatus and techniques but inferior wood.
The ultimate champion? The best wood and apparatus and techniques" (Taha quote)
I have such oils. Those oils were edible grade. Infact Oud was edible grade in those times. Yes none of the oils smell so good. Try Treasure Oud's Star Oud for a basic reference. They supply oils to Firmenich as well. You will know what is old school even though you dont like it. Old masters would taste and tell purity of oils. Lol. I have seen it. I have tasted too. So yes I believe this part of the post.
 

Nikhil S

Resident Reviewer
And one more thing I noticed somewhere is that resin cannot be distilled. If not then what is Kinam distillation ? Truly baffling and an outrageous claim. Kinam sells. Good enough. No problems with that. But it makes me think if Kinam cannot be distilled and only extracted. How much oil will someone have out of it ? Will it smell like the inherent smell of Kinam.chip which already does not need to be burnt to smell ? And when someone claims to have released Kinam oil was it codistilled with highly resinous Oud ? If the oil turns out with a good kinam like profile for e.g. A slightly oxidised IO FHS has beautiful Green Kyara Oil smell. It really does. If they called it China Kinam or something like that I would be fine with it. But a pure Kinam oil cost OMG cant even imagine until its a few drops one wants to achieve nirvana with ! But I am NOT worried about it at the moment. The topic is Oleoresin and its a very interesting topic. One who truly enlightens it with its basic principles and which oils of theirs has been done on such prinicples for reference will truly enlighten us and will be highly.appreciated by one and all.
 
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peter4ptv

Member
My personal conclusion on that topic is : if a seller who claims having distilled the oil for sale, he should have conduced the wood selection, the grinded wood size, the soaking type and period, the distillation set up, the temperature curves, the process period, the oil collection periods, the curing technics, the fractions compilation rates (or assembling), and the aging period.

If the ending result achieved an oil who has caught the oleoresin smell, just send a wood chip with the bottle.

I found online comunity in both forums to be generaly good willing people with their sellers and between themselves too...

They are willing to promote their sellers because they want to help them and willing to please other consumers with advertising an oil they liked and I'm amongst the first here to do so.

All that to say that if it has oleoresin smell, client will tell others : Wow it really smells like the chip on my heater good job :Thumbsup:.

And I call everyone of us to be honnest : we already saw that in comments "it smells just like a chip on low heat" and I remember brother @jalil to be a specialist of that :p !

I want also to recall everyone on the Imperial oud chinese co2 (select extraction) episode in the so called "elswhere".

"Someone" said that it's just cheap oil just good for natural perfumery like you can find in Eden Botanicals website (obviously fatty total extraction).

@Faizal_p asked why such accusation (sapplings dont produce resin ect...) with no informations without acusing and asked for apologies (wich I think never came).

So there are not victims on one side, and murderers on another side (I got many private conversations from innocent sellers badmouthing others that will make lot of people throw out and I will keep this private things unrevealed).

I'm known here and "elsewhere" to be a polemicist I even chose that title, and I'm proud of it ! Even if it can hurt some people (and I'm sorry for this) because after polemics comes the debate and after the debate both people and sellers grow up.

Have a look on sellers, lot of them stopped talking too much on forums, went out from their comfort zone (or couch) to go to the field and craft something wich will make people shut, they are more busy now and I think it's a good thing for both sellers and consumers.

That was mainly the aim of all this mess.

You could say : yes F4R1d0uX but you are clearly unbalanced between sellers.

I was more offensive with sellers who were more agressive and I hope I wasnt unfair doing so.

As for my part the only ennemies I have are Shaytan and a part of myself I have to struggle against. And you can ask to the forum team that I was the first to defend other polemicists who stay now "elswhere" especialy when they attacked me because a forum, as a society in my humble opinion needs polemicists lol !

I consider who shows me contradiction as a helper who show me my own limits and help me pushing them farer.

Peace and don't forget to send a wood chip when you claim your oil has oleoresin smell ;) !

I really never have a problem what vendors say about their oils, oleoresins, kyara kinam etc....
even some of my posts may suggest it that i actually have.
or how much they charge for it @Rasoul Salehi it is a free market and anyone who is selling anything can charge and market the way they like it.
since i got to know oud i am just speechless how one vendor followed by another try to put brutally down any other company or vendor who are selling oud oils.
you can see this from their blogs, internet interviews, basenotes going back to 2008, etc...........
it is very sad to me that such a beautiful thing can bring so much hate.
the basenote forum was closed in the beginning of 2016 and will never be open again and it was all because of all this.
i consider the basenotes oud forum to be the best internet oud reference with endless pages going back to 2008, too bad is no longer available..............
well maybe this was for the better because Ouddict was born.
i relay hope at some point in the near future all to get better.
 

Faizal_p

Sulaym.co.uk
@Nikhil S I don't think you tried our extracted oils however you can perform extraction via CO2 or butane or any other solvent then evaporate or further distill the result to produce an oil. This is what our Sinensis oil was. The aroma of this is representative of pure oleoresin. When normal distillation takes place in a pot it's not possible to capture the compounds in their natural state, al Sharif has mentioned in detail what happens during the heating / condensing phases of distillation. Bonds are broken and others formed, the trick I guess is to produce an oil which represents the resin as close as possible IF you are that way inclined. Otherwise the agarwood will still yield oil which has an Oud aroma, be it floral, barn, etc etc. To me all of this is trapped within the wood and oil so is Oud, like @Habz786 mentioned earlier, if it smells good then job done!
Low temp will produce an oil with more volatiles and lighter compounds as you haven't given enough energy into the wood/water mixture to break the heavier bonds or heat to 'lift' heavier elements out of the water. Higher temps may end up breaking the lighter compounds down further and render them indiscernable.
Hopefully that's simple enough?
 

Nikhil S

Resident Reviewer
@Faizal_p Ah ! Fantastic brother Faizal. Exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks for your resoponse. So the notion that "resin cannot be distilled" is all crap. I am sure now. Even Ensar bhai quite clearly answered me the same. So double confirmation. I can finally have a sigh of relief. If I havent tried the extract of yours, I would love to if those are in my budget. Thanks again. Cheers. But why is extraction too laborious so that most oils on offer are steam/hydro distilled ? Ehy struggle with heat when u can simply capture oleoresin with other techniques ? Or does wood type controls that ? And I am sure that Oud is a traditional art. So were the old legends done with CO2 extraction ? If not were they not capturing enough Oleoresin. And how do you decide which distillation will work best. Do you run separate batches and compare results ? It would very interesting to know.
 
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peter4ptv

Member
@Nikhil S I don't think you tried our extracted oils however you can perform extraction via CO2 or butane or any other solvent then evaporate or further distill the result to produce an oil. This is what our Sinensis oil was. The aroma of this is representative of pure oleoresin. When normal distillation takes place in a pot it's not possible to capture the compounds in their natural state, al Sharif has mentioned in detail what happens during the heating / condensing phases of distillation. Bonds are broken and others formed, the trick I guess is to produce an oil which represents the resin as close as possible IF you are that way inclined. Otherwise the agarwood will still yield oil which has an Oud aroma, be it floral, barn, etc etc. To me all of this is trapped within the wood and oil so is Oud, like @Habz786 mentioned earlier, if it smells good then job done!
Low temp will produce an oil with more volatiles and lighter compounds as you haven't given enough energy into the wood/water mixture to break the heavier bonds or heat to 'lift' heavier elements out of the water. Higher temps may end up breaking the lighter compounds down further and render them indiscernable.
Hopefully that's simple enough?
Faizal, have you try any excitation from Tajul?
i have only try 2 of this type the CO2 Hindi from edens, and a small sample from Tajul that was sent to me i think around end of 2015 and none of them smell like oud oil if i did not know what they were will never guess that it come from an oud, to my nose they were a lot less pleasant than the usual oud oils. about Tajul sample i remember he told me it was some kind of new oud extraction that he was trying it was dark green jelly like and i cannot recall any notes from it but i remember the opening was very strong cucumber aroma.
 

Faizal_p

Sulaym.co.uk
@Faizal_p Ah ! Fantastic brother Faizal. Exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks for your resoponse. So the notion that "resin cannot be distilled" is all crap. I am sure now. Even Ensar bhai quite clearly answered me the same. So double confirmation. I can finally have a sigh of relief. If I havent tried the extract of yours, I would love to if those are in my budget. Thanks again. Cheers. But why is extraction too laborious so that most oils on offer are steam/hydro distilled ? Ehy struggle with heat when u can simply capture oleoresin with other techniques ? Or does wood type controls that ? And I am sure that Oud is a traditional art. So were the old legends done with CO2 extraction ? If not were they not capturing enough Oleoresin. And how do you decide which distillation will work best. Do you run separate batches and compare results ? It would very interesting to know.

Just to clarify so my point isn't misconstrued, resin can be extracted, then from it oil removed, resin cannot transmute to oil. There is organic matter which has changed state, to convert resin completely to oil would need some kind of supercritical water cracking facility like how you break down heavy crude compounds, and believe me no-one is doing that to Oud!

Resin is resin, oil is oil. You can cook dark resinous wood and remove oil from it, your not converting the resin into oil
 

Nikhil S

Resident Reviewer
Just to clarify so my point isn't misconstrued, resin can be extracted, then from it oil removed, resin cannot transmute to oil. There is organic matter which has changed state, to convert resin completely to oil would need some kind of supercritical water cracking facility like how you break down heavy crude compounds, and believe me no-one is doing that to Oud!
Excellent brother :). I have no more questions. Thanks a ton.
 

F4R1d0uX

Resident Artisan
I was talking with a veteran distiller he accepted me to screenshot some of his knowledge (when I tell veteran, he teaches all the most modern technics :D).

Will take time before posting so if some distiller or seller or whatever wants to correct his statments before I post he still have time ...
 

Rai Munir

Musk Man
I also want to say, that whilst brother Shabby has opted not to post here, he has clarified in private what his intent was, he was very kind and polite may Allah bless him.
It is really sad. Respected Shabby is a wonderfully genuine person. Would that I were in his country, I would have requested him to stay active here. I get cynic. But in respected Shabby's post, his inward equilibrium was exemplary for me.

@Nikhil S, thanks and thanks for to-the-point question, and bringing the discussion to the title of the thread. Thank God, I am no expert distiller (I said distiller, not Master). Otherwise, I would have to concoct an answer to release the oil trapped in wood or resin, and trap the buyer in oleoresin to extract his oil;). Dear Nikhil, you know very well.
I am not aware of the G1 G5 processes because the long oxfordian posts were not straight to the point.
By the way, none is. Because in reality it is nowhere. You know, at stock-exchange, commodity is yet nowhere, but that has been sold and resold for many times. G1, G2, Oleoresin, etc are oud fashions now. Shelf life is nothing. Wait for next release or pre-release, and this oleoresin will again get trapped in the wood, and wood will become incense-y and sinking, and so on. Believe me, I feel like someday I will come to know about such Sandal oil, distilled from Sandal Resin:p.

I mean to say, all these generations and resins etc are 1 per cent of Oud, but made 99 per cent. Anyway. I enjoyed Making Oud Resinated Again. Sorry.

As for topic of price i chose to see it this way but open to be convinced otherwise:
It is my understanding that the raw material for these oils are of very high price b/c they are incense and carve grade not oil grade. Hence less supply more demand (from Japanese and Chinese mainly) and as such higher prices.
Respected Rasoul, Oud, Musk, Sandal, Rose, etc are NOT OBLIGATORY. Wearing them is a luxury, and luxury has no price. You are absolutely right. But with due respect, entire scene is not that simple that much you have conceived and then expressed. Problem lies in fake claims and marketing for fake hype and then pricing oils at maximum, BUT POSING TO BE BEARING FINANCIAL LOSS by offering at a low price. By the way, just investigate and dig out about the real price of the oils majority of vendors have got from the real distillers from India, Indonesia, Thailand, etc.? Price hike is a modern hydra. Look, Ajmal never claims it is offering on low price. They don't come up with big-bang-ish Detroit-y high tec pots and pipettes. Marketing! Yes no evil. But, yet, more than an evil it has turned to be. By definition it is no evil. But by everyday experience it is. Whenever I talk about price, I just refer to drapery. If on Black Fridays the legend and once in life time and kinamic oil can get down to minimum, of course it indicates towards some bug. A businessman never jumps into loss, especially financial. If you want to know the nearest exact price of the oil, wait for Christmas or some other auspicious day. Then collecting blessings by discounting becomes a live-show, and before or after that, collecting blessing in dollars is a reality show.
In sum, my understanding is that under classical and long existing methods high resin wood yields less oil. But I am not certain if a kilo of high resinated wood while having learned how to convert the resin to oil yields same amount or much more or still less than a typical oil rich wood meant for distillation. I shall investigate further and reply back
Yes, it is the best decision to investigate first. Investigation doesn't include a quarter-distillers or googling. The only authentic source is the Master, whose genes' coding is Oud-based. When profiteering is in, wit is out. Investigation requires travelling afar.
Not logical but hey since when pricing always followed logic 100%?
Again with due respect, logically your statement is questionable. If at all I consider your statement valid, do you think it is worth naming human behaviour? Stinky behaviour exhibited by a large majority doesn't make that Oudy. By the way, travel a bit, and you will find a lot of people offering at such price that will be 101 per cent logical, therefore, that will be ethical. If not, even done by all, even done by a seemingly pious, is illogical, thus unethical, and hence stinky.

I am not here to convince anyone. I encourage oudh lovers to give these oils a chance only and only because they have brought me so much joy and pleasure and I like to see my fellow brothers experience the same joys I have. That’s it. No agenda. No alterior motives. None.
None else is here to do so, I am sure. Respected Rasoul, no one has said so. Your posts are thought provoking. I read your posts last day' Re-read, tried to understand all, and then I dared answer. If there were agenda, or there were some hidden motives, somebody would have expressed resentment, but it is not so. I have spent six months here, and I vouch for the open mindedness of the members. Stay calm and relaxed. There is only one person who has an agenda, and that is 'I':Laugh:.

Sorry for my ignorance but I never see "oleoresin" used for some of the greatest :
Respected firdaous, in fact it is not to be seen, it is just a SCENE. I am sure.

@Faizal_p: Thank you very much for your problem resolving post. And much thankful I am over your posting BRIEF post.:Roflmao:

Our context today is very different to the context of a few decades ago, let alone centuries. Therefore it should not be surprising that some of the oudhs in the market today would not be Oudh in the classical context.
I am sure those Ouds are not ouds even today, but man-made ouds they are. I am scared of @Ammar, my respected most; so, I won't say anything further.;)


I do pray some one be a bridge between both the Forums. Would that it were a unified whole! Having clashing view is not deformity, but marketing differences is, and then bashing an individual is worse than deformity, even bashing of an enemy. Wearing Oud is sunnah (sunnat e a'adi, not sunnat e ta'abbudi). Bashing is satanic. Two things cannot proceed together.

Stay calm and serene. God be with us all.

PS: I am not going to declare it my last post;). I enjoyed this thread, and learnt a lot.
 
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Nikhil S

Resident Reviewer
@Rai Munir The Wise man. You are also full of wit. I seriously have nothing against vendors. Afterall, they have to feed their families. This Oleoresin makes an appearance everytime and confuses us all and that hifi beating around the bush is quite deterimental to human simplicity. Its a forum for god s sake and some just slide into a different dram personality and try to present simple logic as art. Art is propaganda and it only works with fools. So its always smart to come straight to the point. Its time saving and meaningful. Anyway I am waiting for some light from brother F4#$_%*÷; as he is promised to share a master distiller s views. The thirst for knowledge can be dangerous and some may think we are poking our noses too much but ultimately its love for Oud. And we really appreciate what these distillers/vendors bring us. You can hate a vendor for his antics but you cant hate his oils. Thats what I have learnt from both forums. Sultani, Multani, Ceen....whatever it is if it smells good I ve got to have it. Simple. But since everyone here loves Oud so much its much better to be a bit honest and straight fwd. Having said that I feel 150usd Malay Incens is a beautiful oil and I dont care which Gen it is. So are Zak s oils. So every vendor is special in a way irrespective of whether they have ever seen a distillation pot or not. Just Oud, no hard feelings. My friends. Cheers.

Just 3 months ago, a very popular Cardiologist from my town was arrested. After years of service and multiple awards in the field of Cardiology he was one of the most respected gentleman around. You know why he was arrested after 20 years....his MBBS degree was fake. Lol. In a nutshell its not easy to fake things. Internet can be very tricky. We are gullible at times.
 
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F4R1d0uX

Resident Artisan
Thing is brother my patents just came back from Algeria I want to spend time with them many months I did'nt see them so if someone wrote something somewhere by accident it will give him time to correct himself ...

The master accepted to let me share just few technical parts regarding this subject for the love of oud and doesnt want war...
 
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