Oud Distillation

[Al Shareef Oudh]

Nice one Adam, my only recommendation with these setups would be, to place a spacer between the cooling pot and the cooking pot. Copper being a very good conductor and in long cooking times will heat up the cooling pot which intern will mean you have to run a lot more cooling water, this can be a pain in the butt in warmer climates.


Another point with these to keep in mind, because of the shape of the cooling pipes inside the cooling pot, if you do not get your cooling water temperature bang on, you will get static oil around the pipe, best way is to run the out water from the cooler around body temperature. If you ever note that oil is not coming out, just reduce the cool water flow so you get a bit of temperature build and that will force the oil through the condenser.

 

[Russian Adam]

Good advice.


Thank you Shareef.

 

[jalil]

All this cooper...beautiful!

 

[Al Shareef Oudh]

continuing the discussion from the Vendor's thread


There is much discussion in the trading circles around the classification of Oudh wood, vendors, traders, distillers etc would like to think they know how to differentiate between the varying array of variety, grade and counterfeits , unfortunately the reality is far from it. As the value of this heavenly wood increases so does the counterfeit market to mimic and copy, making it all the more challenging in identifying the real from fake, the wild from plantation, the natural from inoculated. There are many examples from video and photo evidence online 'experts' think a wood is wild and in fact it isn't, when they imagine a parcel to be Vietnamese and it isn't.


This is a fairly major problem when considering costs. Hunters, traders etc endeavor to sell their wood as whatever gets them the best deal, distillers are then left with a wood to distill that may not be as classified, and they don't know any better.


Knowledge does not equate location, otherwise everyone could relocate next to a university and claim a PHD. It isn't a surprise that this cycle continues because the 'experts' the consumer is relying on are self taught and to a certain extent the consumer is paying for the mistakes of the 'expert'.


These type of issues make knowledge based forums priceless, because people can ask questions, share their knowledge and ideas, above all challenge a wacky theory that they may have read online.

 

[Oudamberlove]

A lot of chips do look-a-like, a distiller would have to test each piece, who's got the time for that, not to mention comissioned distillations, if you're not there to see what gets tossed into the pot, then there you have it again, some uncertainty as to the wood within.


Now some distillers claim to coax profiles from one species that mimic profiles from another species. Okay, this is way over my head now, I'm sure there are tricks of the trade that probably make it possible to do so. But in the end it confuses me. I'm smelling crassna, but it's malaccensis, or sinensis when it's gyrinops. I wish it were cut and dry, the profile I'm smelling, is from the species that I know it to be. But let art be art, the bottom line anyway, is if it smells good, it's good 🙂

 

[Russian Adam]

Thank you Oudamberlove that is what I meant exactly.


If we are talking true high grade oud oil that has a signature of a person crafting it then one must be present during the whole process. Only by examine the batch by person heating slice by slice one may be sure what he is actually cooking.


We seen some farmed woods that appear extremely "wild". ( believe it or not some farmed wood actually is sinking... keep an eye on upcoming oils

On the other hands some wild wood may appear farmed by its look. For instance the raw materials used for Koon Mai Wan and Borneo Adventure 2. It may look like a logs painted with acid that are so common in Thailand. However, put a slice on a burned and the scent profile will tell you a different story... The style, richness and complexity of aroma can not lie... Is it highly matured wild agarwood or woods from plantation... The difference between those just as clear as when one comparing some Sri Lankan nuggets with South Thailand or Kao Yai agarwood...

 

[Mandeel AlMandeel]

A lot of chips do look-a-like, a distiller would have to test each piece, who's got the time for that, not to mention comissioned distillations, if you're not there to see what gets tossed into the pot, then there you have it again, some uncertainty as to the wood within.
Now some distillers claim to coax profiles from one species that mimic profiles from another species. Okay, this is way over my head now, I'm sure there are tricks of the trade that probably make it possible to do so. But in the end it confuses me. I'm smelling crassna, but it's malaccensis, or sinensis when it's gyrinops. I wish it were cut and dry, the profile I'm smelling, is from the species that I know it to be. But let art be art, the bottom line anyway, is if it smells good, it's good 🙂

Some wood u can catch it easy by look into it but not all wood also mixing wood and change origin of wood are normal in that business from hunters even expert ppl will not know that because some.wood shape and same aroma profile wood world are big and not easy and about quality of cooking wood and if wild or plantations or high quality or not your nose will judge

 

[Russian Adam]

Regarding you being concerned about some distillers coaxing profiles… well I see your point here… it may be confusing…


In fact I personally want to express a deepest love for Traditional Oud...


However, once one old oud head told me that it is almost impossible for him to get exited about another “marvellous Hindi†or “typical Thai†or “classical Cambodiâ€â€¦


What he may be interested in is a Thai that goes Indonesian, or a Hindi that goes Borneo… sure we are not talking here about low quality raw materials with skipped soaking… rather the high quality woods of a particular region cooked the way that changes its typical DNA…

 

[Mandeel AlMandeel]

You mean that raw matriel Russian adam that you cooked before from wild isn't ?

 

[Al Shareef Oudh]

The issue here isn't around people being creative, for example Adam has tried a few unorthodox tricks such as adding durian in one distillation or coconut water soaking in another. One of the peoples he calls mentor even had a go at him for that, but I see nothing wrong with that creativity. It's clear oudh was mixed with something else and he was honest and clear about it.


The problem I am highlighting is when people are showing plantation logs and calling it wild wood. They are then advertising the oil from that as wild oil, and that clearly isn't wild. Or even worse, mixing Indonesian, Malaysian, sri lankan, vietnamese , x , y, z woods and calling the oil Sri Lankan or Malaysian or Vietnamese. That is a mixed origin oil, not single origin.


I can understand if a consumer is not fussed about what goes in the pot, but rather they like the smell inline with what Oudamberlove mentioned, no issues there, however the majority of consumers do care about the accuracy of information. It is also the basic ethics and principle of any transaction to be accurate about the composition of the product. That can't be hidden under the disguise of art, that isn't art. Secondly the goal post of what is art in the distillation business is well established, kids coming along in the last 10-15 years aren't going to redefined that.

 

[Faheem]

I would have to agree with Al Shareef here, people who had no clue about oud few years ago are now experts in everything Oud. I for one dont claim that and listen to more experienced distillers and old master and try to learn what I can. These old timers have been making oud for generations but they dont have access to facebook or forums to explain their techniques. I think with Oud you can never claim to be an expert but always a learner.

 

[Russian Adam]

You mean that raw matriel Russian adam that you cooked before from wild isn't ?

Yes, correct. This wood we used for our Koon Mai Wan oud oil.


It comes from Chayaphoom province which is on the way to Laos.


The scent profile is quite different from any other Thai agarwood I have tried.


It may appear farmed to those who have a chance only to look at it and not to smell it.


However once you smell the wood, with out even heating it becomes clear that it is wild.


The intensity and complexity of the aroma tells you this.


Once you start heating it becomes even more clear and evident that this type of scent can not appear inside a young, farmed tree that has been painted with acid or even inoculated with natural bacteria.

 

[m.arif]

That can't be hidden under the disguise of art' date=' that isn't art. Secondly the goal post of what is art in the distillation business is well established, kids coming along in the last 10-15 years aren't going to redefined that. [/quote']
A very interesting point there Shareef. So what is art, as established in the distillation business? I am very new and genuinely don't know.

 

[Mandeel AlMandeel]

You mean that raw matriel Russian adam that you cooked before from wild isn't ?

With more respect even beginner guy with Agarwood will know this wood are plantations and wild wood doesn't have hallow like that


For Example for same plantations wood u can check that post


https://ensaroud.com/en/product/thai-kodo/180


Even that wood are plantations but in web site saying wild and that's not true check that link


https://ensaroud.com/en/product/kyara-ltd-centennial/114

 

[bhanny]

You mean that raw matriel Russian adam that you cooked before from wild isn't ?

Pretty bold accusation there

 

[bhanny]

This has all gotten so absurd and disappointing. I have had the opportunity to discuss their oils, methods, visions, and passions, with several of these guys, especially the most maligned one, and if anyone thinks they are anything but artists then I don't know what to say. Do they want to make money? Of course, who wouldn't want to while doing what they love? And they are making amazing oils.

 

[Oudamberlove]

Our voice was silenced over at Basenotes. Here at Ouddict, we have a platform that is relaxed, and full of free speech. That's a plus, and I hope it stays that way.

 

[Oudamberlove]

I personally appreciate each and every Oud vendor. They are all amazing to me. I respect them all for their style and efforts. If I had countless dollars, I would support each new release they offer. However, they all end up under the microscope of discussions, such as we have here at Ouddict. We thirst for all knowledge concerning Oud. Placing our very own views and assumptions under the microscope as well. Enjoy the ride 🙂

 

[bhanny]

Oh I fully agree Oudamberlove. I have purchased oils from all. And I welcome healthy debate, criticism, etc. There are just a few here who seem hell bent to continue their quite blatant vendettas, which seems contrary to what this forum was supposed to be about.

 

[Al Shareef Oudh]

m.arif


there is a nice book written by Robert J. Forbes called "A Short History of the art of distillation" in there you will find a chronological evolution of the art, right from it's origins, tools, application as an art and where it stands today. It is fairly well thought out so it gives you a good point of reference as beginner to revert to when you hear wacky narratives.


@PEARL


My points are very clear. Art is one thing and hiding ones mistakes and calling it art is another. If you are happy to pay for the mistakes of your favorite vendor under the name of art then that is your choice, however we have to be clear that mistakes are not art. This is what I am referring to when I talk about kids trying to redefine the art. Mistakes are not contributions to the art and they should have long ago been called out as such. There is such a large amount of misinformation under the name of art propagated by novices that the average new consumer that comes online is totally lost between fiction material to the extent that even when they see non-fiction they do not have a factual bench mark to compare it.


The discourse here is not about a glass condenser, or adjusting of temperatures or the 'new' way verse the traditional. The discourse is about separating fiction from non-fiction, once the consumer has clarity then they may opt for the fiction, but at least they have done so with knowledge.


The discourse should not be about one single person company or business, and we shouldn't reduce it to that. The oudh community should not be shy of calling out facts in an effort to keep the two separate, fact from fiction. At times it may seem like one of our favorite vendors are being maligned, but we all have the ability to come on here and explain ourselves.


Oudamberlove, bhanny


I think most of us felt somewhat restricted at BN because of the style of that site, and I think running the microscope over information put in front of us is a key to factual learning. You would not believe the number of old timers from the oudh community who have just quit the scene because of the inaccurate, contradictory and ever changing stories they were receiving online and not knowing which to believe. That happened for so long because anyone who spoke up were silenced by the fan clubs of different vendors. Hopefully here we can challenge the inaccuracies and both vendors and consumers should be big enough to professionally conduct themselves.