Al Shareef Oudh


You have brought it up before, separating fact from fiction. That is so very helpful for all of us, vendors and consumers alike, because I'm sure that vendors too may have not had all the facts when publishing some statements, and they probably know better now. We are all on a learning curve, sometimes learning together. Establishing good factual knowledge will satisfy us now, and benefit future generations in the knowledge of Oud.
 
Yeah - let's keep the discussion going. I know it may never be possible to separate fact from fiction and it may make some people uncomfortable but if people are discussing things in a public forum there is at least a chance. The alternative is for us to learn in isolation and from reading marketing copy... that is maybe more peaceful but probably hopeless as far as learning goes. If folks want to engage in optimistic praise of the fragrances they love, it seems like some of the vendors have their own blogs with comment threads - that could be another place to have conversations that avoid controversy.
 
Ouddict forum is wonderful. We have Distillers/Vendors as members, other members contribute their reviews, and yet others are quite knowledgeable. We're multicultural, and multinational. The only problem is, you guys are not my neighbors, otherwise, we could sit down in the backyard, light up a few chips and sticks, and even check out some oil stash. 🙂
 
Al Shareef Oudh I like evidence, so whilst you speak of 'seperating fiction from non-fiction' please could you elaborate on your allegations and back them up with detailed, hard evidence? Thanks.
 
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Mandeel AlMandeel said:
You mean that raw matriel Russian adam that you cooked before from wild isn't ?
bhanny good morning , if you dont think I'm right just go for any trusted guy expert in agar wood or own plantations and ask him ( not vendors or member here ) and please let me know the answer thank you! 🙂
 
Mandeel AlMandeel said:
You mean that raw matriel Russian adam that you cooked before from wild isn't ?
Why don't you provide some detailed evidence to prove what you're saying, Mandeel?


Why is it impossible for wood like this to be wild?
 
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Mandeel AlMandeel said:
You mean that raw matriel Russian adam that you cooked before from wild isn't ?
if the links not enough then you should go to any plantations in thailand and check the wood by yourself this shape are the ABC of agar wood please check that link! 🙂


https://hgagarwood.com/products-page/agarwood-logs


this the example of plantations agar wood from official plantations farm
 
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Mandeel AlMandeel said:
You mean that raw matriel Russian adam that you cooked before from wild isn't ?
All I'm asking is for you to educate those of us who aren't as knowledgeable as you, please? Why is it impossible for wood such as this to be wild?
 
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Mandeel AlMandeel said:
You mean that raw matriel Russian adam that you cooked before from wild isn't ?
deleted by me and if you keep using ghost name i will ban u i accept only old members asking me anything even brother pearl use your old name and you're welcome here
 
Mandeel AlMandeel said:
You mean that raw matriel Russian adam that you cooked before from wild isn't ?
It wasn't an offensive comment though, just a simple request!


I was on here and BN but no longer have the email details for the account here so started this one.I had intended on being a lurker but the decided to give some info on a bottle of sandalwood and then thought I had to respond to some other posts. So new members can't ask you questions, is that what you're saying? Can't people choose to be anonymous if they wish too?
 
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Mandeel AlMandeel said:
You mean that raw matriel Russian adam that you cooked before from wild isn't ?
i show u everything you ask about with links, and i know you very well i read your 6 or 9 post from bn
 
PEARL, OudObserver


As I have said before I am not going to make this individual focused, or focused on a particular business or vendor as that is not going to be beneficial for anyone, however I will point out the misinformation and it is up to the consumer to determine which vendor has spread that information.


In an art that has been around for a few hundred years, anyone who came on the scene in the last 10-15 years and has just began their journey; they would be considered novices. This is not only the case in the art of distillation but in any art that has hundreds of years of history behind it. There is so much to learn, centuries of knowledge that requires digestion, understanding, consolidation then growth and evolution from that. I remember reading Kayarzen mentioning that for the art of Kodo a person requires more than 30 years of training to full understand and appreciate it. As a distiller it isnt just about through wood in a pot and making oil, but understanding the wood, being able to conceptualize what scent that wood will create and then delivering. Not to even mention the myriad steps before one gets to a final product.


With regards to your question on telling the difference between cultivated oil and wild oil, the technical way you can tell is by the number of the different natural constituents within an oil. Over time the nose can develop to pick up the intensity of those constituents within an oil and use that as an indicator between cultivated wood and wild wood. However this approach on it's own is not bullet proof because if a high quality cultivated wood is used on the one hand and low quality wild wood on the other, you may still find that the cultivated oil will show higher counts of the compounds such as the Alpha agarofuran, agarospirol, Beta Agarofuran etc which are some of the elements that give oudh oil some of its specific dimensions. There are over 40 different elements that contribute to the oudh experience.


Your request that I do the naming and shaming of vendors is not something I will entertain as that is not why I share knowledge. I am happy to deal with your technical questions so with regards to the last two questions you asked below is my answer and which vendors have done that is for you to join the dots.


'logs' with a hollow core like the attached pic "Hollow Log" are not wild oudh, these are cultivated oudhs.


Perfect cylinders like pic attached sample 2 are cultivated oudhs, not wild.


flaky saw dust cores which are white in colour surrounded by a darker wall of fairly cylindrical consistency are cultivated oudhs. Please see this link for a pic https://www.livinglibations.com/media...agarwood_3.jpg


When cultivated oudhs are being infected the grower drills the tree to a fixed depth from all sides and they avoid crossing through. They would also drill at angle downwards to ensure that they fungus liquid follows gravity into the tree. For example if the radius of the tree is 10cm, the grower will drill only 5cm - 8 cm from the outside towards the core. Then the fungus are introduced and for these logs it is usually a liquid form in a dripper, such as the CA Kit. What the excess liquid does together with the rain water making its way through the feeder tubes is destroys the core and leaves the surrounding. The defense mechanism of the tree builds the walls to defend the rest of the tree and the core crumbles. Hence either they become hollow or very flaky and crumbly.
 
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@Sharif... You are welcome to call me and my friend ali kids. Due to a fact that we started to cook agarwood oil with our own hands only 2 years ago making it “dirty" with oud. So yes we are nothing but a 2 years old babies in term of oud distillation. Before that I was only reselling oils designed by me and cooked by other people. So you are more then welcome to do that.


However, I personally would not dare to call Ensar and Taha kids... ( if you refering to some other people please forgive me and please specify ). These two people in my personal opinion brought, revealed and shared many beneficial knowledge as well as many innovative technics and not just contributed to the oud world but I dare to say conducted an oud revolution. If you doubt that please refer to top 5 oud oils thread and see for yourself which oils are there (weather it's ratings are based on a personal preference or quality assessment ).
 
Here is another example of a wood that may appear farmed, similar shape and look, just as the one used for Koon Mai Wan…


Dark skin and light brown, yellow and white wood inside...


However, farmed agarwood trees of this size in Sabah simply does not exist… Not to mention the amazingly complex, wild scent profile of the wood once heated and even unheated…


To add to that you have some experts ( well at least to me, who is only 2 years ago started to cook oud oil ) like Taha and others who tested the oil and had no doubt that it has wild and high quality scent profile…


To add to the fiction that ALL logs that are dark out side and lighter colour with in inside are FARMED one may refer to beautiful pictures of Sri Lankan logs posted by Faheem.


I myself seen many and there are some that looks just as the ones we used for our Koon Mai Wan and BA 2 oils…


I think no one would argue that those “farmed†looking logs are wild… unless there is some secret society in Sri Lanka that plant agarwood since many years ago =)


@Sharif, i dont blame you for calling those farmed, (if you refer to Koon Mai Wan wood, if not please forgive me and be specific so people stop guessing ) in fact i myself thought so once i only seen them. However, once i had a chance to examine them closely, smelled them and burned, it became very clear that its not the case. Those woods are wild based not only on observation but on a detailed scent profile analysis.


Perhaps this will help to clarify doubts and confusion that some may have...
 
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@ Sharif,


if you personally want to contribute some beneficial knowledge, spread the true understanding and benefit the oud society in general as well as consumers in particular please share the facts.


For instance pictures of the wood YOU use for distillation. Which is wild and which is plantation. Which of your oils were cooked from which grades. How it reflects on the cost of the oils. How you personally examine the quality of a particle batch of the wood and what you suggest others to do when examine the quality and how to do it.


Any materials shared would be much appreciated.
 
Al Shareef Oudh


In terms of the art comment, again I would disagree. I don't think anyone would argue that the piano had been around many many years before Beethoven, yet he could do things at just a few years of age that nobody before had done. He was revolutionary. Most truly unique and pioneering artists are.


I am not using this as my commentary about the history of oud, I am far too new, but again, just because something was done a particular way for hundreds of years doesn't mean it is the best way. We thought the earth was flat for millennia. In my own field, medicine, things that we did 15 years ago were archaic and in many cases wrong.


In addition, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but the raw materials available now vs 15 years ago are vastly different. It would make sense there would need to be some evolution in terms of distillation, etc, to produce higher quality oils in the setting of less quality wood.


And again, I am no expert here, but it seems a bit of a stretch to call someone out on lying based on a single picture on a website. Just my opinion.
 
Russian Adam said:
Here is another example of a wood that may appear farmed, similar shape and look, just as the one used for Koon Mai Wan…
We didn't speak about that wood this wood from your new partner Samsir from sabah i even know him before u make business with him , we speak about thai wood that you said in video are wild and isn't wild and are plantations 100%
 
@Adam, I believe that Ensar had consulted with many old timers concerning Oud distillation. I think he benefited from their centuries old knowledge, but factor-in the likelihood that Ensar, had traveled to many different Oud regions, and learning from many old masters, each specializing in the Oud of their own specific region, that gives Ensar the advantage of knowing a lot, collectively. He has released so many Ouds, and of many varieties, that he has smelled more than any of us. Taha is probably not too far behind also. But still, they chart their own path, Ensar has his style, and Taha has his style. You also have charted a unique path, creating your own style, actually if you keep it up, you will have more new releases than both of them combined.
 
Russian Adam said:
@ Sharif,
if you personally want to contribute some beneficial knowledge, spread the true understanding and benefit the oud society in general as well as consumers in particular please share the facts.


For instance pictures of the wood YOU use for distillation. Which is wild and which is plantation. Which of your oils were cooked from which grades. How it reflects on the cost of the oils. How you personally examine the quality of a particle batch of the wood and what you suggest others to do when examine the quality and how to do it.


Any materials shared would be much appreciated.
@shareef It would be very interesting to see another vendor's raw materials. I've only seen a few vendors' raw materials (aside from Adam, Taha, Ensar). I'm really interested in your Ceen oil on your website. It'd be super great if we can see that one! Chinese oils sure are rare!
 
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