"you said: If you know your brother was a thief and he would go out and steal tomorrow would it be fair to lock him up before he stole anything? Remember that he would be confused as to why you locked him up because he didnt know he was going to steal something himself when you locked him up?" this is a braindead question please forgive me but when there is a lack of moral all you see is condemnation and never cure. see it never passed your mind to ask if i would heal his need to want to steal instead you talk about jail because the indocrination you have been installed in you is based on fear and pain etc...
you said: " But god is also all-merciful." this again is false 1000% and filled with lack of logic why? because "all merciful" means for example when the children in palestine been crying in fear all these months and they pray and beg god to help them and he doesnt THIS IS NOT WHAT ALL MERCIFUL MEANS. i hope you can go passed your emotional ways and see it for what it it.
"emotional argument" ????????????? oh you saying we should remove all human emotions and be robots without emotions for the sake of some scripture passed from thousands of years ago and never evolve true logic? brother, go back and study the picture again, it is a real argument and completely debunks monotheism as being moral and just. it actually puts it to shame, or do you have a good reason why your god allows the genocide of countless inocent beings in many places similar to palestine????????? there is no excuse, unless of course you fear standing across from the god that terrorizes you, then you become the best devils advocate and call it logic and moral...its not tho.
you said: " Since you are an atheist why dont we talk about the existance of god in first place? " bro, you are the atheist because you do not believe in the infinite gods that exist and prefer to believe in only one. i guess its the same as believing only in one cat, one dog, one human one sun, one planet, one fish...but you dont see it. how am i an atheist when i believe in countless gods??? who believes in cats more a person who believes only one cat exists in the world or someone who knows countless cats exist? you guessed it! lol
adam and eve being the story of the jewish people and their god yes or no?? the jewish god created adam and eve and tested them with the talking snake etc and sin etc....IT IS A JEWISH STORY OF THE GOD OF THE JEWS AND LITERALLY HOW THEY BELIEVE LIFE ON EARTH STARTED. why did islam copy it if it is not a byproduct??? if i become a distiller and copy paste words from a story of ensar ouds oil am i original????? NOPE I AM NOT!! so why did islam copy? it didnt, monotheism is the perfect tool to terrorize people into consent to give their soul and the reward factor is pure mind control. the masses were really dumb and oppressed and the kingdoms thrived with monotheism as the boogie man who would either condemn or reward the subjects.
you said: "God created everything. God does what he wills with his perfect knowledge and attributes. God creating you was a mercy to yourself. 50 years ago (I assume as you sound young ahaha) you where not even a thing worth mentioning. You where literally non existant. Now you are here with the sight and smell and touch and hearing. You cannot even ennumerate the blessings you have by virtue of god." actually, your god didnt create me, my parents did LMAO im telling you, your whole belief system is imaginary ecause proof is my parents created me and your under this idea that your god created me its insane brother. come to your senses!!
explain how your god came to be. i dont want to hear the non intelligent story of "he always existed". there is no way a sentient being existed before anything else because there would be no image or definition around to give knowledge to sentience and it would be impossible for something that doesnt have a record in light to create out of darkness. this is satanic ideals. gods came from a subconscious mechanism of their element(eternity) this subconscious mechanism as is a snowflake and all creation around us, happened without consciousness but it happened for consciousness!! you are taught to be backwards and this is not logic. a computer can not just pop into existence without someone creating it first and adding to it information for which the computer will be able to act a certain way based on algorythm or consciousness. but subconsciously it is possible, look at dreams. existence is all just a big mind that is eternal and divides into multiple versions of itself.
"Were they created by nothing? Or were they themselves the creators?" there is no such thing as "nothing", nothing itself is a definition created by man to give image to non existence but even "non existence" is "something". all definitions exist ONLY in the conscious mins of god. we are all gods and goddesses, but oppressed minds do not want this like a jailed bird does not want freedom. to house birds, freedom is an illness a scary nightmare. who will feed them and take care of them??? they need a master. this is the difference between us brother, you need a master, i am my own master and i believe we all are our own masters, an eternal family of gods and goddesses while you prefer judgement and death instead of healing and freedom.
Well the reason I mention jail is because that is relevant to this discussion. Regarding curing him of his thievery that falls outside the scope of this. Thats kinda obvious but you seemed to miss this point.
I didnt say we should remove all emotions and be robots lmao thats absurd from your behalf. No rather I said that the reason evil things occur are to test us. Like I said I already debunked that and since you say to go back and read it again I'll suffice with that.
You call me an atheist but I beleive in god. You are a polytheist which means you beleive in many gods. The refutation for that belief is above, I wont write it out again. I can add:
If you are god as you claim, why cant you stop yourself from dying? You dont have the ability to do so. God must be all powerful otherwise he wouldn't be god.
"adam and eve being the story of the jewish people and their god yes or no?? the jewish god created adam and eve and tested them with the talking snake etc and sin etc....IT IS A JEWISH STORY OF THE GOD OF THE JEWS AND LITERALLY HOW THEY BELIEVE LIFE ON EARTH STARTED. why did islam copy it if it is not a byproduct??? if i become a distiller and copy paste words from a story of ensar ouds oil am i original????? NOPE I AM NOT!! so why did islam copy? it didnt, monotheism is the perfect tool to terrorize people into consent to give their soul and the reward factor is pure mind control. the masses were really dumb and oppressed and the kingdoms thrived with monotheism as the boogie man who would either condemn or reward the subjects."
False analogy: If ensar oud distilled a hindi oud oil with leathery notes and you also distilled a hindi oud oil with leathery notes does this necessitate that you are copying Ensar Oud? No. It just means you both have a leathery oud oil that is a hindi. sigh.
"you said: "God created everything. God does what he wills with his perfect knowledge and attributes. God creating you was a mercy to yourself. 50 years ago (I assume as you sound young ahaha) you where not even a thing worth mentioning. You where literally non existant. Now you are here with the sight and smell and touch and hearing. You cannot even ennumerate the blessings you have by virtue of god." actually, your god didnt create me, my parents did LMAO im telling you, your whole belief system is imaginary ecause proof is my parents created me and your under this idea that your god created me its insane brother. come to your senses!!"
If your parents created you in the absolute sense:
Why can they not create you again when you pass?
Your parents where the means to create you the same way the light switch is the means to turn the light on. It doesnt mean the light switch created the light tho.
And god creates in the absolute sense. But this 'creation' you refer to is deficient in nature, as your parents are not the absolute creators. They nor you can create from absolute nothingness, rather it is transformation of a thing from one state to another. In addition, it is restricted to only things that humankind can manipulate which is very restricted in scope.
"explain how your god came to be. i dont want to hear the non intelligent story of "he always existed". there is no way a sentient being existed before anything else because there would be no image or definition around to give knowledge to sentience and it would be impossible for something that doesnt have a record in light to create out of darkness. this is satanic ideals. gods came from a subconscious mechanism of their element(eternity) this subconscious mechanism as is a snowflake and all creation around us, happened without consciousness but it happened for consciousness!! you are taught to be backwards and this is not logic. a computer can not just pop into existence without someone creating it first and adding to it information for which the computer will be able to act a certain way based on algorythm or consciousness. but subconsciously it is possible, look at dreams. existence is all just a big mind that is eternal and divides into multiple versions of itself."
Sorry but just because you dont like the answer doesnt change the answer. God always existed. That is outside the scope of our imagination and comprehension because as humans everything we know is created by nature. But it inherently makes sense, as only one who existed all the time can create. If there was always a creator behind the creator ... then we would never come into existance. I bring the paradox of the sniper:
The sniper has his scope set and on target. His commander asks the higher up who asks the higher up who asks the higher up and this goes on for infinity. Hence the sniper will never take his shot (likewise the creation would have never come into existance).
""Were they created by nothing? Or were they themselves the creators?" there is no such thing as "nothing", nothing itself is a definition created by man to give image to non existence but even "non existence" is "something". all definitions exist ONLY in the conscious mins of god."
Acutally there is such a thing as nothing. Nothing is absense of a thing. Nothing is not even a thing let alone to create something else. and Since it cannot be our parents who truly created us and gave us life (as they cannot create us and give us life again once we pass) then surely the logical extension is that something must have given us life.
Lastly regarding the 'GEM' you forgot:
In a god-fearing islamic society: The people fear god and so they refrain from such lewd acts. Of course their may be the odd exception here and there. But by and large this example you mentioned:
Verily it occurs when people take up your religion (worshipping themselves/ their own whims and desires) not when people take up my religion. This is again a logical argument:
I take your religion = I believe I am god (والعياذ بالله) = I dont fear any punishment because I tell myself it doesnt exist = I do what i want = atrocities committed
So funnily enough this argument you bring is the byproduct of a godless society in first place, not the byproduct of a godly society.
BUT: my friend you are jumping everywhere and all over the place. We can argue about the above point (which is a secondary) but we must establish a foundationf first which is if you do beleive in god or not.
OTHERWISE:
You are arguing over the branch of the tree but you are unsure weather the tree exists in first place.
Verily that is not the argument of an intellectual. Rather it is pointless.
So let us start with the foundation first which is belief in god. Everything else comes after that. Their must be a foundation established otherwise their is no point in this discourse.
Also:
Please be careful with the language you use when discussing sensitive topics like rape etc because their may be victims of that in this forum and this vivid and descriptive language serves your purpose of pushing your point across, but it may cause harm to some people also, so we must be considerate of everyone.
Side note:
Im maintaining a respectful tone and I am not insulting your beliefs, rather I am bringing forward rational and logical arguments. However, I can see that you are beginning to call my belief bad names and the likes so I kindly ask you to refrain from such speech so we can have a polite, cordial and respectful discussion. If this discussion is to much for you then you are not obligated to reply my friend.
Also Renton you embarress me lmao
