Sandalwood oil of the day

[EJayB]

With Australian and Indian sandalwood the lighter colour oils are from the trunk and lower part of the tree. The yellower coloured oils is from branches.

Traditionally darker coloured oils are considered inferior as they are from branches and woods that have not being on processed correctly and not the trunk heart wood.

Also people who know what they are doing with sandalwood do not distill the outer most ring. Those things impact the colour and smell.

Maybe the people who know what they are doing don’t distill the outer most ring but the people who know about making money do . Shavings are very commonly distilled in massive quantities in most of the production area . It’s being sold to very mainstream companies, big companies.
Produced at 2bar pressure and only distilled 40 hours . Yield can be from .4-.9 % and produces a very light color oil. Who would throw away resources rather then Utilize them ? In my opinion shavings from wild trees make better oil than young Australian sandalwood which has very little heartwood developed after 15-17 years of growing and is mostly outer wood.
Most of that wood( in Indonesia )

is ground up and distilled as whole logs with yield of 1.5%
Labor is so cheap in Indonesia that they are being swamped by thousands of tons of Australian sandalwood because it’s so much cheaper to process in Indonesia it’s worth shipping the logs . As I get into the sandalwood business it’s an eye opening experience. Australian low grade is everywhere being pushed into the marketplace

 

[Al Shareef Oudh]

Maybe the people who know what they are doing don’t distill the outer most ring but the people who know about making money do . Shavings are very commonly distilled in massive quantities in most of the production area . It’s being sold to very mainstream companies, big companies.
Produced at 2bar pressure and only distilled 40 hours . Yield can be from .4-.9 % and produces a very light color oil. Who would throw away resources rather then Utilize them ? In my opinion shavings from wild trees make better oil than young Australian sandalwood which has very little heartwood developed after 15-17 years of growing and is mostly outer wood.
Most of that wood( in Indonesia ) View attachment 28360is ground up and distilled as whole logs with yield of 1.5%
Labor is so cheap in Indonesia that they are being swamped by thousands of tons of Australian sandalwood because it’s so much cheaper to process in Indonesia it’s worth shipping the logs . As I get into the sandalwood business it’s an eye opening experience. Australian low grade is everywhere being pushed into the marketplace

Like anything there will always be those who do it for money and those who do it for the excellence. My comments here was to a community seeking excellence.

Of course money makers distill the bunk, that's the name in the sandalwood industry, a name online Oudh community borrowed from the sandalwood industry, bunk wood. The reason it is called bunk wood in the sandalwood industry is because it is in a specific region of the wood all the time, the outer ring. It doesn't apply to agarwood because the infection in oudh doesn't travel in the same manner. That is topic for another day.

I assume by shaving you are referring to the bunk wood.

Australian sandalwood is heavily regulated by the Australian government, with prison sentence for violators and kept in check by a solid working standard as a national resource. The largest customer to Australian sandalwood is India(amazing isn't it when India has it own) and China. We can't meet their demand, so I am not certain what ends up in Indonesia is actually Australian sandalwood, probably island sandalwood from PNG/Indonesia etc being pushed as ozy.

There might be an argument to make if the trees are very old to distill the bunk vs younger commercial trees, both however would be classified as commercial oils used by the big companies for making beauty and cosmetics.

 

[EJayB]

Like anything there will always be those who do it for money and those who do it for the excellence. My comments here was to a community seeking excellence.

Of course money makers distill the bunk, that's the name in the sandalwood industry, a name online Oudh community borrowed from the sandalwood industry, bunk wood. The reason it is called bunk wood in the sandalwood industry is because it is in a specific region of the wood all the time, the outer ring. It doesn't apply to agarwood because the infection in oudh doesn't travel in the same manner. That is topic for another day.

I assume by shaving you are referring to the bunk wood.

Australian sandalwood is heavily regulated by the Australian government, with prison sentence for violators and kept in check by a solid working standard as a national resource. The largest customer to Australian sandalwood is India(amazing isn't it when India has it own) and China. We can't meet their demand, so I am not certain what ends up in Indonesia is actually Australian sandalwood, probably island sandalwood from PNG/Indonesia etc being pushed as ozy.

There might be an argument to make if the trees are very old to distill the bunk vs younger commercial trees, both however would be classified as commercial oils used by the big companies for making beauty and cosmetics.

Good point with India importing the bulk of Australian sandalwood ( SA) goes to show you most of the oil out of India is cut with if not outright just Australian. The person I buy vintage logs from and makes oil for many big people in the artisan industry told me how many ton he imported last year and after that conversation I realized if I don’t distill the Indian oil myself it’s most likely cut with Australian. Australian is the cheapest wood available and when sold as Indonesian or any other country’s sandalwood oil it brings a better price than Australian and the labor is much cheaper in other places also. When I spoke to the owner of the largest plantation in Australia they offered wood to me at 40ton a month minimum purchase if buying monthly so seems they have a lot of wood to sell. It’s the cheapest wood available on the market that I’ve seen .
But 40 ton a month is A bit out of my current budget 🤦🏻‍♂️
I guess like with all natural resources there will always be Those willing to exploit them for greater profit. This is the main reason I feel it’s important to share the documentation of materials with the customer and educate them about what is being distilled and how in an honest way.

 

[Al Shareef Oudh]

Good point with India importing the bulk of Australian sandalwood ( SA) goes to show you most of the oil out of India is cut with if not outright just Australian. The person I buy vintage logs from and makes oil for many big people in the artisan industry told me how many ton he imported last year and after that conversation I realized if I don’t distill the Indian oil myself it’s most likely cut with Australian. Australian is the cheapest wood available and when sold as Indonesian or any other country’s sandalwood oil it brings a better price than Australian and the labor is much cheaper in other places also. When I spoke to the owner of the largest plantation in Australia they offered wood to me at 40ton a month minimum purchase if buying monthly so seems they have a lot of wood to sell. It’s the cheapest wood available on the market that I’ve seen .
But 40 ton a month is A bit out of my current budget 🤦🏻‍♂️
I guess like with all natural resources there will always be Those willing to exploit them for greater profit. This is the main reason I feel it’s important to share the documentation of materials with the customer and educate them about what is being distilled and how in an honest way.

What is interesting is that the Indians buy the sandalwood for paan, many people don't know this but paan eaters are the highest consumers of sandalwood.

The indian government on the other hand is very protective of its sandalwood brand name, they have been investing in and reaping the rewards from their sandalwood industry for more than a century, it is infact a national treasure. The bulk of sandalwood products coming from India is government based, the ones you have to be careful about are the none government. That is why I am super sceptical especially of indian sandalwood woods outside of India, it is illegal to send out of India. What is very interesting is that the locals have raised awareness of the issue as well. I have kgs of century old Mysore sandalwood wood in India that we can't get out.

Where the cutting happens if so would be down the supply chain. One has to also keep in mind that the sandalwood market is much more research and education based than Oudh.

As for Indonesia due to my long experience there i have a very low threshold for what comes from the dealers and traders there. Unless I run tests on the woods I never trust the claims. The claim that they make regarding reselling Australian sandalwood as Indonesian is easier believed in words than in practice. Apart from the clear difference in profile of the sandalwood, I believe for the most part it is a fear mongering tactic used by dealers to make sales of their products.

The Australian sandalwood community are close knit I know most of them on a personal level and used to consult for them back in the day. Now the two big orgs have their own scientists and small labs, and we still do have a working relationship with both. I wouldn't always believe the words that are spread around the vine most of it is to seed ideas or sentiments.

 

[oud.time]

@Al Shareef Oudh

I've seen it written in various vendor write-ups that older sandalwood trees produce resin. I haven't seen any research papers that verify this though. Do older sandalwood trees actually produce resin or do the terpenes just form longer chains and age in a similar manner as they would in an essential oil?

 

[Mr.P]

Today I’ve been wearing olefaktory Sri Lankan sandalwood. Really enjoying the particular sandalwood nuances that emerge after a couple of hours.

 

[EJayB]

Today I’m wearing roots !!! Just roots of Indonesian origin!!! I was shipped some Material to assay the yield and quality
(testing results not my opinion) of the oil for future production scheduling at the distillery in Indonesia.
The roots are young and wild left behind by hunters who did’nt have time to dig them Out of the dirt so basically a secondary harvest years after the trees were cut .
Honestly there is no comparison between wild and plantation wood in my experience , young wild is better then the plantation wood available.
Distilled for 8 days at low heat and slathered like aftershave !
Smells great

 

[Al Shareef Oudh]

@Al Shareef Oudh

I've seen it written in various vendor write-ups that older sandalwood trees produce resin. I haven't seen any research papers that verify this though. Do older sandalwood trees actually produce resin or do the terpenes just form longer chains and age in a similar manner as they would in an essential oil?

Sandalwood naturally doesn't make a resin not internally like Agarwood nor externally like pines.

There is a solid extract in the market, this comes from the wood after distilling, solvent extraction is used to get a very nice solid, which some people call sandalwood resin. Most of that ends up in China for incense making.

 

[Mr.P]

I would love to see a really nice sandalwood absolute some day. Not extracted from the spent wood but from the good stuff.

I would think the yield would be considerably higher, so it would be pretty economical. Certainly should cost less than the distillate it might be a great material for folks experimenting with perfumes and attars.

* I should add that it would probably only cost less if it was produced at some massive scale facilities already set up for it, of course. also, I’m just going on the general assumption that an absolute will include a variety of resins, pigments and waxes that would not be in a distilled oil. I know for Rose, the yield is much higher for the absolute than for the otto for example.

I got this one New Caledonia absolute from Eden botanicals that was very well priced and an amazing oil. $60 an ounce at a time when sandalwood oil was well over 120.

 

[EJayB]

🤔

 

[Al Shareef Oudh]

I would love to see a really nice sandalwood absolute some day. Not extracted from the spent wood but from the good stuff.

I would think the yield would be considerably higher, so it would be pretty economical. Certainly should cost less than the distillate it might be a great material for folks experimenting with perfumes and attars.

* I should add that it would probably only cost less if it was produced at some massive scale facilities already set up for it, of course. also, I’m just going on the general assumption that an absolute will include a variety of resins, pigments and waxes that would not be in a distilled oil. I know for Rose, the yield is much higher for the absolute than for the otto for example.

I got this one New Caledonia absolute from Eden botanicals that was very well priced and an amazing oil. $60 an ounce at a time when sandalwood oil was well over 120.

It does provide a very woody yet also rich in other dimensions with deep honey butter and vanilla notes as an absolute. Much more oily than Oudh absolute and more friendly to use in perfumes. I have done it a few times.

 

[An Najwa]

That is why I am super sceptical especially of indian sandalwood woods outside of India, it is illegal to send out of India. What is very interesting is that the locals have raised awareness of the issue as well. I have kgs of century old Mysore sandalwood wood in India that we can't get out.

Exactly!
Shipping Mysore sandalwood outside India is near to impossible because of the law.
Even possession of more than 5kgs is illegal in India.

But there are some people who do this on a regular basis. And also Kangiiten get their Mysore from here.

We have sourced some very good quality Mysore but is only available for our Indian Customers.
Even shipping small quantities might get us in trouble.

Hoping for the day when we can send and receive these precious Aromatics without any hassle.

 

[EJayB]

Kangititen seems to get that black meat no problem and yes it’s no easy task. I recently moved a 2.4 kg vintage log and a few government stamped billets from India via Dubai for my next sandalwood project.
The person I work with owns large amounts of vintage wood purchased at the gov auctions years ago as well as current stock of plantation wood , but he still imports around 100 tones per year from Australia and Africa for filling in the wood bill for his pots that they keep running . I know With the price of wood from the government and known yields on distilling and cost of operations along with the price they sell the oil at there is something not adding up right?🤷🏻‍♂️
I can’t say with certainty what is going on in India but I do know that this vintage Mysore log will be cut , chopped, ground and distilled personally and I can guarantee it’s 100% old vintage Mysore log oil
Freshly distilled

 

[AlHind Oud]

Indian government are supplying Sandalwood from Kerala and East India and it's not Mysore for a very long time. I doubt kangiiten got their blackmeat directly from India, it could be China? or links via kyarazen.

I bought the government stamped billets long time ago and distilled them at a small scale. These log doesn't have any smell at room temperature also they are less fragrant even when burned. If you observe it, they are golden instead of red that tells you how young these tress were when they were cut.

 

[Oudologie]

What is interesting is that the Indians buy the sandalwood for paan, many people don't know this but paan eaters are the highest consumers of sandalwood.

The indian government on the other hand is very protective of its sandalwood brand name, they have been investing in and reaping the rewards from their sandalwood industry for more than a century, it is infact a national treasure. The bulk of sandalwood products coming from India is government based, the ones you have to be careful about are the none government. That is why I am super sceptical especially of indian sandalwood woods outside of India, it is illegal to send out of India. What is very interesting is that the locals have raised awareness of the issue as well. I have kgs of century old Mysore sandalwood wood in India that we can't get out.

Where the cutting happens if so would be down the supply chain. One has to also keep in mind that the sandalwood market is much more research and education based than Oudh.

As for Indonesia due to my long experience there i have a very low threshold for what comes from the dealers and traders there. Unless I run tests on the woods I never trust the claims. The claim that they make regarding reselling Australian sandalwood as Indonesian is easier believed in words than in practice. Apart from the clear difference in profile of the sandalwood, I believe for the most part it is a fear mongering tactic used by dealers to make sales of their products.

The Australian sandalwood community are close knit I know most of them on a personal level and used to consult for them back in the day. Now the two big orgs have their own scientists and small labs, and we still do have a working relationship with both. I wouldn't always believe the words that are spread around the vine most of it is to seed ideas or sentiments.

On the point of India importing Sandalwood, I can confirm that India also imports Sandalwood oil and this oil is used in making pan masala or chewing tobacco.

 

[Oudologie]

Real mysore sandalwood from India continues to be shipped out and there are existing secondary channels to make this happen. We do import it regularly.
We also stock the real Mysore Sandalwood and actually sandalwoods from around the world, we have sandalwood by absolute from New Caledonia, Sandalwood co2 from Indonesia, Mysore number of batches, Vintage Mysore 1980s, Mysore petrichor Codistillation 1990s.

 

[EJayB]

Yes the billets sold by the government shop are small low oil content and still over priced as can be , but I had a few thrown into my order just to get the stamped mini logs in my collection but I wouldn’t distill them , just the 2.4 kg black meat old log !
The price in India is 10x more then other places and I wonder , is it better to have a 50 year old Indian log at x-price or a 100 year old log from Indonesia for 10x less🤔
I know it’s better then 17 year old wood from the plantations even when it’s at 20x less cost

 

[AlHind Oud]

Cool. I'll be getting a 6.2kg old mysore root soon. But before that I need some major upgrades to my equipment. I won't be distilling everthing at once but will try different methods and temperature settings.

 

[Brahim_knows_nothing]

Enjoying Tongan Sandalwood 1999, purchased from brother @Hamza H . A creamy scent with a beautiful orange peel opening and vanilla-like transition.

 

[Jazzoid]

I would love to see a really nice sandalwood absolute some day. Not extracted from the spent wood but from the good stuff.

I would think the yield would be considerably higher, so it would be pretty economical. Certainly should cost less than the distillate it might be a great material for folks experimenting with perfumes and attars.

* I should add that it would probably only cost less if it was produced at some massive scale facilities already set up for it, of course. also, I’m just going on the general assumption that an absolute will include a variety of resins, pigments and waxes that would not be in a distilled oil. I know for Rose, the yield is much higher for the absolute than for the otto for example.

I got this one New Caledonia absolute from Eden botanicals that was very well priced and an amazing oil. $60 an ounce at a time when sandalwood oil was well over 120.

@language scent gifted me some home made sandalwood extract which is absolutely beautiful. Made from shoyeido wood I believe. It's a swooping dark minty chocolate with boozy dried fruits underneath and a smooth lick of civet. The smell radiates from the substance like heat. Doesn't smell woody at all and I had no idea what it was when I first smelled it. I would love to use this in perfumery but realistically it can only be made in tiny quantities. It's really nice to open and sniff though.