Sandalwood oil of the day

[Mr.P]

Did you get your hands on some of this sandalwood from MesOud mate? Would like to hear your opinion on it.

Not yet, I put in a request for a wee bit so I think I will be getting some sooner or or later.

 

[Olfactory Nomad]

Not yet, I put in a request for a wee bit so I think I will be getting some sooner or or later.

Nice. It's really something else. It has that "toothiness" to it that has sometimes been mentioned but very smooth as well. No sharp edges at all. Oddly though, it's the first oil that I've shared with my wife either oud or sandalwood that has immediately given her a headache. She said she likes it but it's too strong for her. Her left temple was visibly throbbing. Crazy!

 

[Mr.P]

Sandalwood CO2 total extract, been in my collection for 24 years. The wood was from Tamil Nadu, oil came from White Lotus Aromatics. At one point it seemed like sandalwood CO2 select and sandalwood CO2 total were going to be items of commerce but they seem to have faded away... One company that used to make them, Nisarga biotech, stopped because it became too difficult or maybe expensive to source good quality wood this is based on some private correspondence with one of the owners.

I'm not sure if this is from Nisarga or not but they were the ones who supplied some of the CO2 oils to the old Eden as well and I'm pretty sure at least one other well-known vendor. Sandalwood CO2 oils are weird, I've had this thing for 24 years and I still feel like I can't quite figure out if it's a great sandalwood or not. It's definitely good and it's definitely different, quite maple like and dry woody, certainly pretty low santalol levels given all the thick caramel stuff that has to be something other than santalols.

You would think extract like this would have an extra long duration or something because in many cases we're used to thinking of the solvent extracts, resinoids, absolutes of plants as being somewhat fixative in nature and closer to hearts and bases than their distilled oils. Orange blossom absolute versus neroli for example. Sandalwood is a paradox because only the high-quality or redistilled essential oil can achieve 90% plus santalol levels, and there is really very little (oak moss, labdanum, ??) out there that can go toe to toe with high grade sandalwood when it comes to long-term sustained pleasing aroma and to my aesthetic oak moss and labdanum are not on the same tier.

the thick and waxy materials that make this thick like caramel would act like a fixative and extend the scent if they were added to a distilled oil of some other plant... but sandalwood is a freak and it's only the distilled oil in my experience that has the really absurd duration and performance with the extracts losing intensity much more rapidly after the first couple of hours. In my limited experience the other extraction types bring in some toothiness but always(?) in the top and mids and alwaysat the expense of that sublime long lasting woody base perfection. I also can't think of anything else that throws a blanket over other smells as much as sandalwood does but I haven't really done side-by-side of scent suppression with different fixatives, which should be an interesting study to do.

 

[roflwaffle]

Sandalwood is a paradox because only the high-quality or redistilled essential oil can achieve 90% plus santalol levels,

I'd question this a little. I've found very little correlation between santalol levels and quality of the s. Album. And the 90% thing is more often than not the old testing method of free alcohols as santalol and bit diff than more modern gcms. Quality usually seems to come from things that aren't santalol imo, as at least the alpha/beta santalol compounds I've smelled are fairly quiet little things. I've def had some advertising very high santalol levels that were far less interesting than ones with lower but still in band.

I agree that labdanum and oakmoss are not nearly so complex or nuanced though

 

[Mr.P]

I'd question this a little. I've found very little correlation between santalol levels and quality of the s. Album. And the 90% thing is more often than not the old testing method of free alcohols as santalol and bit diff than more modern gcms. Quality usually seems to come from things that aren't santalol imo, as at least the alpha/beta santalol compounds I've smelled are fairly quiet little things. I've def had some advertising very high santalol levels that were far less interesting than ones with lower but still in band.

I agree that labdanum and oakmoss are not nearly so complex or nuanced though

Indeed it's more complex than I let on and it's always a challenge posting something complex like this because the messages get so long but it's the nuances that matter. I didn't say quality I said persistent dry down. At least that's what I meant. It's a very specific facet of the oil and I'm pretty certain it only shows up if you have a high percentage of santalols with a decent ratio of beta to alpha. Never comes out of the extracts or low santalol shavings oils or things like that.

And yes I've seen plenty of 90% plus santalol stuff that was mediocre because (assuming I've picked up the facts correctly here) it's mostly alpha and not particularly appealing . Same thing for pure santalol isolate - not particularly charming.

Edited. Voice dictation and voice assistance on iPhones is a miserable experience. For some reason it now has started inserting duplicates of random dictated words, usually one singular and one plural. It will do it four or five times in a paragraph, completely unacceptable

 

[roflwaffle]

Fair nuff. I imagine there's no shortage of things in the synthetic world with longer substanivity, not as complex as they're single molecules though. Betel leaf has insane longevity, but not what I'd call pleasant on its own. Vetiver is also tenacious, and while there's a lot of types, def not found one as pleasant as sandalwood though, it really is a class to itself.

Vanilla is probably the closest, lasts quite a long time, smells great, or tobacco abs maybe, but i dont really want to go applying that in any amount. Tho I've never tried vanilla concentrate neat and checked how long, i just know in blends its holding on for ages.

 

[Mr.P]

Fair nuff. I imagine there's no shortage of things in the synthetic world with longer substanivity, not as complex as they're single molecules though. Betel leaf has insane longevity, but not what I'd call pleasant on its own. Vetiver is also tenacious, and while there's a lot of types, def not found one as pleasant as sandalwood though, it really is a class to itself.

Vanilla is probably the closest, lasts quite a long time, smells great, or tobacco abs maybe, but i dont really want to go applying that in any amount. Tho I've never tried vanilla concentrate neat and checked how long, i just know in blends its holding on for ages.

I'm pretty sure I read vanillin is the least volatile or has the lowest vapor pressure or something like that of any aromatic raw material so it wouldn't surprise me if this would be something that sandalwood wouldn't quite be able to match in terms of straight up longevity. Not sure if I've got that straight. My experiments and blends with the natural isolate showed it to be incredibly long lasting and the kind of thing that keeps popping up long after you think it's gone.

 

[Mr.P]

Fair nuff. I imagine there's no shortage of things in the synthetic world with longer substanivity, not as complex as they're single molecules though. Betel leaf has insane longevity, but not what I'd call pleasant on its own. Vetiver is also tenacious, and while there's a lot of types, def not found one as pleasant as sandalwood though, it really is a class to itself.

Vanilla is probably the closest, lasts quite a long time, smells great, or tobacco abs maybe, but i dont really want to go applying that in any amount. Tho I've never tried vanilla concentrate neat and checked how long, i just know in blends its holding on for ages.

Also just a reminder: the gist of the post was that the oil is unusual because the distillate lasts longer on skin than absolutes or extract, and I don't know of any other material like that

 

[roflwaffle]

Also just a reminder: the gist of the post was that the oil is unusual because the distillate lasts longer on skin than absolutes or extract, and I don't know of any other material like that

Ah right, I can only think of one, as ck oud distillate lasts longer than co2, the waxes and what not that come over in a full co2 are non aeromatic, so the distillate may just have higher concentration of the smelly bits.

I got caught up on "and there is really very little (oak moss, labdanum, ??) out there that can go toe to toe with high grade sandalwood when it comes to long-term sustained pleasing aroma and to my aesthetic oak moss and labdanum are not on the same tier."
which i thought was about general longevity and moved off the topic of CO2

But yea, exceptions not the rules. I wonder if orris and vetiver would be similar, since they contain kinda dead weight that would get pulled by co2?

 

[Mr.P]

Ah right, I can only think of one, as ck oud distillate lasts longer than co2, the waxes and what not that come over in a full co2 are non aeromatic, so the distillate may just have higher concentration of the smelly bits.

I got caught up on "and there is really very little (oak moss, labdanum, ??) out there that can go toe to toe with high grade sandalwood when it comes to long-term sustained pleasing aroma and to my aesthetic oak moss and labdanum are not on the same tier."
which i thought was about general longevity and moved off the topic of CO2

But yea, exceptions not the rules. I wonder if orris and vetiver would be similar, since they contain kinda dead weight that would get pulled by co2?

My CK extracts (resinoid) lasts many hours longer than the distillate... I agree many of the CO2 oils don't have much to them.

 

[roflwaffle]

My CK extracts (resinoid) lasts many hours longer than the distillate... I agree many of the CO2 oils don't have much to them.

That's still kinda a curious thing. I've made ck resinoids but havnt actually compared them side by side or paid attention though.

I do seem to recall a post on here by a guy that was doing tons of eth extractins (you were assuredly in that thread), and he noted that he was surprised that a shorter ethanol extraction yielded a better product than a long protracted ethanol extraction (days not months). If your regimen for eth extraction is the same, then i wonder if it falls closer to distillation than CO2, just extracting a higher concentration of the good long lasting bits than distillation, but less of the deadweight than CO2? or something along. those lines.
Or somehow eth soluability pulls some big ole heavy smelly bits that distillation leaves behind. And he was doing some $$$ woods and non sinensis.

I'd be curious to look at GCMS if i can find it of the CO2 vs distillate vs resin if i. could find it (the third likely impossible without paying)

The other maybe explanation for the CK specifically - you doing full chips/more decent chips extracts more of the proper aeromatics, and commodity CO2 generally using the shavings/area surrounding incense grade formations. It's still extractable, but its missing some of the compounds that only come with age (and yet still more come as they become actually aged). So this isnt a CO2 vs Eth vs Distilled, but more of a low grade vs med grade base product phenomenon?

 

[Mr.P]

That's still kinda a curious thing. I've made ck resinoids but havnt actually compared them side by side or paid attention though.

I do seem to recall a post on here by a guy that was doing tons of eth extractins (you were assuredly in that thread), and he noted that he was surprised that a shorter ethanol extraction yielded a better product than a long protracted ethanol extraction (days not months). If your regimen for eth extraction is the same, then i wonder if it falls closer to distillation than CO2, just extracting a higher concentration of the good long lasting bits than distillation, but less of the deadweight than CO2? or something along. those lines.
Or somehow eth soluability pulls some big ole heavy smelly bits that distillation leaves behind. And he was doing some $$$ woods and non sinensis.

I'd be curious to look at GCMS if i can find it of the CO2 vs distillate vs resin if i. could find it (the third likely impossible without paying)

The other maybe explanation for the CK specifically - you doing full chips/more decent chips extracts more of the proper aeromatics, and commodity CO2 generally using the shavings/area surrounding incense grade formations. It's still extractable, but its missing some of the compounds that only come with age (and yet still more come as they become actually aged). So this isnt a CO2 vs Eth vs Distilled, but more of a low grade vs med grade base product phenomenon?

No idea but yes, a CO2 extract is a special case, don't know much about the detailed parameters but I know you can make something that's very much like an essential oil or something that's more like a concrete depending on the pressures / temps or something like that.

 

[Mr.P]

Quintis sandalwood, a sample generously shared with me by @Loulikesoud - this is plantation Santalum album, aged four years or maybe five I think. It's an interesting slice of the sandalwood experience, almost nothing really tangible to the opening, but I got some interesting rich woodiness when walking out of doors into the hot humid air. Some of those notes were quite nice - dry and sandalwoody to a degree. But somehow it comes across as like a puzzle piece taken from a picture of a complete sandalwood, like most of the pieces are missing. It reminds me of the top notes middle notes and dry down of good sandalwood but in itself isn't- it's like a ghost with just hints.

Could be a good neutral sandalwood carrier for attars i think or maybe something that would be good to distill into when making distilled attars because it's so mild

 

[Shiningrobes]

Mesoud - NTT 1/3?

Not sure which version this is since I have both and the label is long worn away. This has been sitting mostly untouched for well over a year and man oh man has it aged into something incredible. Just bursting and effulgent. With bright hints of musk and lilies steeped in almond extract. This smells so much like saffron right now. Like a handful of the fresh harvested stigma right under the nose. The other version I have (1 or 3 again) actually has saffron in it but that now comes across as a bit flat, like the saffron has tamped down what made the untouched oil great.

Indonesian sandalwoods usually come across one of two ways for me depending I guess on my nose on that day. Either nutty, dull and/or rubbery or super bright and blasting. I can usually sniff the cap and know if I want to wear it that day. It’s funny how the nose works because on the days when I do want to wear it the nutty dull rubber notes that I don’t like get folded up with and become the notes that I do like.

These take so long to unfold into what I would consider the classic santalum album profile, but when they do it’s all fresh cut timber and pale wood with a high polish. I know this won’t last long before I wear it all, but I do wonder what this would age into if I left it alone for even longer.

 

[ahmedibnabid]

Green silani - Santal '25
Probably my favorite Sandalwood oil, it's got this grassy sweetness like chewing sugar cane but there's such a lovely coconut scent. Coconut oil, husk and flesh. Heavy clotted cream here as well, but subdued. I need to get a tola of this stuff.

 

[mobyus]

The Oud Trader - African Sandalwood [Unreleased] (sample)

Really nice and sweet. Smells soapy 🧼. Like really high-end hotel 🏨 toiletries. Woody, buttery, and creamy. I think this is the first time I try a SW from the African continent. Very beautiful.

 

[Olfactory Nomad]

It was suggested to me yesterday by @PerfumeAl that I should do a side by side of HM Mysore - Sulaym & Kabini - MesOud. So I'm giving it a shot. It's been a good while since I've smelled the HM Mysore and it does not disappoint. Has all the classic characteristics of a top shelf sandalwood. Sparkly citrus in the opening, leading into butter and timber. My preference in this instance is definitely Kabini however. It's a complete stand-alone oil. It has none of the opening citrus at all. Instead immediately plunging me into a gourmand buttery mess. Think a big bowl of some kind of pastry dough with lots of vanilla and powdered sugar being mixed. Sometimes it's lonely at the top.

 

[Mr.P]

Got a few samples of some interesting sandalwood and patchouli oils @Loulikesoud was kind enough to share with me. These include some of the CO2 extracts and an absolute being sold by kangiiten along with patchouli oils from Margon and a special old sandalwood oil from Yamada Matsu. It will take a while to really tune into what these have to offer but the experience has already been interesting. the kangiiten oils have a distinctive character, some unusual light accessory notes that I haven't encountered in sandalwood before. It is no surprise that there are many varieties and sub types of the wood and oil. For the most part when I experience a new oil it's a variation on a theme I've already encountered. Something is a bit different than these that sets them apart... (origin? storage? processing?). They are surprisingly different from the other CO2 oils of sandalwood I have smelled with the exception of the dark sandalwood "resinoid". (Resinoid in quotes because I think it's a CO2 fraction which is not something I'm used to calling a resinoid). It smells a bit like a CO2 total extract, like a toned down version of some of the strongly maple / fenugreek type oils that were available in the early 2000s. Very interesting getting a chance to experience what I believe is basically a small batch sandalwood CO2 extraction - this is probably the first I've encountered, which would probably contribute to the unique terroir i am sensing.

 

[Shiningrobes]

Speaking of Kangiiten sandalwood..,

I didn’t find this particularly exciting so I almost immediately altered it with other sandalwoods. An RPP one, drops each of the old Mesoud macerations of ambergris and musk (which is still my favorite musk). I don’t know what all else now. It has several sandalwoods. It’s been sitting for about two years and I’m glad I forgot about it because it’s the perfect thing for my nose right now. It’s like every good vintage s. album that I own all in one. The ambergris is really expressive. There are both rich and dry wood elements plus an almost raspberry overlay. It smells very old but isn’t as muted as some of my older oils. The bottle itself is also adorable but is a sobering reminder of what 2ml really looks like.

EDIT: Wow, this is a lot. Much more going on here than I thought. It’s like a complete run through of santalum album profiles. The resin, paper, dry woods of NTT but mellowed out and sitting on top of warm sap wood; sweet, almost treacle. For like $30 on sale for the original I don’t think, I did so bad. This is the blend that had convinced me I could upgrade boring sandalwood with some cautious additions of better ones. I think I was right.

 

[Loulikesoud]

Speaking of Kangiiten sandalwood..,

I didn’t find this particularly exciting so I almost immediately altered it with other sandalwoods. An RPP one, drops each of the old Mesoud macerations of ambergris and musk (which is still my favorite musk). I don’t know what all else now. It has several sandalwoods. It’s been sitting for about two years and I’m glad I forgot about it because it’s the perfect thing for my nose right now. It’s like every good vintage s. album that I own all in one. The ambergris is really expressive. There are both rich and dry wood elements plus an almost raspberry overlay. It smells very old but isn’t as muted as some of my older oils. The bottle itself is also adorable but is a sobering reminder of what 2ml really looks like.

EDIT: Wow, this is a lot. Much more going on here than I thought. It’s like a complete run through of santalum album profiles. The resin, paper, dry woods of NTT but mellowed out and sitting on top of warm sap wood; sweet, almost treacle. For like $30 on sale for the original I don’t think, I did so bad. This is the blend that had convinced me I could upgrade boring sandalwood with some cautious additions of better ones. I think I was right.

Indeed, sandalwood, the more boring it is, the more useful it is a canvas. This sounds like a beauty you’ve made!

I just did a sandalwood and coral jasmine attar for my wife (inspired by Kai Leon!) and I’m quite pleased with it! I picked the blandest stuff I could find as a carrier.