MFH - Experiments & Materials

[MaxFromHolland]

Tibetan project
Short overview before i stop nagging talking about it.
#1 is my original version w/o applying advice that started off horrible but its maturing in an interesting way
#5 is variation on #1 with different oud and the vintage benzoin
#2b is the balancing act between #2 and #3, warmth of guaiac versus projection

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Some things to read

Married in the Still: The Quiet Craft of Co-Distillation — GRAND SILLAGE Journal

A new-old technique is quietly rewriting the language of naturals — two ingredients distilled together, so their souls mingle at the source rather than being bl

grandsillage.com

Aged in Oak: How Perfume Learned to Age Like Whisky — GRAND SILLAGE Journal

The most talked-about niche launches of 2026 are not chasing speed — they are borrowing the patience of the distillery, letting fragrance sleep in charred oak u

grandsillage.com

 

[MaxFromHolland]

La Verde

First attempts at the Vetyver re-interpretation (or whatever one could call such an exercise).
First test was green, green and bitter green, aka fail.
Shifting the balance a bit between the frankincense and petitgrain was enough to open it up. Scent now transforms from a spicy green open to a mild, somewhat sweet citrus. Next, the scent seems to tell me you're overdosing the lisylang.. I think it will keep me off the streets for a while 🙂

 

[MaxFromHolland]

La Verde

View attachment 56581

First attempts at the Vetyver re-interpretation (or whatever one could call such an exercise).
First test was green, green and bitter green, aka fail.
Shifting the balance a bit between the frankincense and petitgrain was enough to open it up. Scent now transforms from a spicy green open to a mild, somewhat sweet citrus. Next, the scent seems to tell me you're overdosing the lisylang.. I think it will keep me off the streets for a while 🙂

Btw, received new tray of bottles so i made dilutions of above ingredients to play more & waste less. Both nose and wallet will be happy 🙂

 

[MaxFromHolland]

La Verde

View attachment 56581

First attempts at the Vetyver re-interpretation (or whatever one could call such an exercise).
First test was green, green and bitter green, aka fail.
Shifting the balance a bit between the frankincense and petitgrain was enough to open it up. Scent now transforms from a spicy green open to a mild, somewhat sweet citrus. Next, the scent seems to tell me you're overdosing the lisylang.. I think it will keep me off the streets for a while 🙂

Just a hint of Sweet Birch working wonders. Suddenly there is air and space around the notes, the vetiver no longer surrounded but supported in reveiling its notes. The black pepper seems richer, the citrus brighter.
Now there is a story. From the open with a herbal green it seems to become and incense scent. But soon a warm citrus emerges from the incense, only to become brighter, like the sun leaving the clouds behind. Then slowly you become aware of wat seems a Haïti vetiver, fresh and light. But the more the citrus fades, the more the vetiver reveals its true south Indian identity.
It's like a journey starting on the Swiss alps, via Rome to the south of Italy, to Haïti, final destination the south of India. Better take a plane back to swipe some more 🙂

If this matures without weird surprises, I don't think there's much to improve or change.

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Ofcourse my posts about the Tibetan Project and the La Verde project have to be read in the context of amateur level experiments.
Am sure any half decent perfumer would be like hold my beer and mod it to the next level 🙂

Anyway, just took a little sneak preview from the #5 bottle that still sits on the stirrer to help that vintage benzoin resin dissolve, and it is kind of amazing to already notice the difference between the good generic and that vintage material. More depth, more classy.

So the thought to keep great oils to use neat, and less great oils to use in blends may not be the best way to go about.
I usually split my (modest) budget between buying stuff to wear and Ingredients. I may well decide to skip the former and focus on collecting better quality ingredients.

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Cough couch 😵

Been fairly generously applying diluted tests. Just applied a normal oil and forgot to dose it accordingly.

So if you're wondering whats that smell in western Europe: it's me 😷

 

[Mr.P]

Ofcourse my posts about the Tibetan Project and the La Verde project have to be read in the context of amateur level experiments.
Am sure any half decent perfumer would be like hold my beer and mod it to the next level 🙂

Anyway, just took a little sneak preview from the #5 bottle that still sits on the stirrer to help that vintage benzoin resin dissolve, and it is kind of amazing to already notice the difference between the good generic and that vintage material. More depth, more classy.

So the thought to keep great oils to use neat, and less great oils to use in blends may not be the best way to go about.
I usually split my (modest) budget between buying stuff to wear and Ingredients. I may well decide to skip the former and focus on collecting better quality ingredients.

The older materials definitely can bring in quite a different presence to a blend - something confirmed to me by some past customers of some variations of perfumes I've made where the formula was kept the same but higher quality well aged materials were substituted for ordinary ones in a deluxe version of the fragrance. For certain types of things I trust a customer's nose more than my own because they are smelling it fresh and from a clean perspective whereas I have a long history with any fragrance that I've managed to finally produce so there are all kinds of associations and desensitizations due to repeated exposure by the time I get it made that keep me from smelling it clearly.

They reported overall general similarity when experienced independently but after some side-by-side comparisons felt the aged material (patchouli) definitely improved the bouquet considerably, and resulted in a more engaging and complex fragrance overall. I'm not sure how to generalize from this experience with patchouli oil to other types of perfumes or other materials but I agree with the idea that these choice materials can in fact be used to create something special and it is possible with careful work to incorporate them in such a way that they don't just become lost in / swamped by the blend and indistinguishable from a lesser product.

 

[MaxFromHolland]

The older materials definitely can bring in quite a different presence to a blend - something confirmed to me by some past customers of some variations of perfumes I've made where the formula was kept the same but higher quality well aged materials were substituted for ordinary ones in a deluxe version of the fragrance. For certain types of things I trust a customer's nose more than my own because they are smelling it fresh and from a clean perspective whereas I have a long history with any fragrance that I've managed to finally produce so there are all kinds of associations and desensitizations due to repeated exposure by the time I get it made that keep me from smelling it clearly.

They reported overall general similarity when experienced independently but after some side-by-side comparisons felt the aged material (patchouli) definitely improved the bouquet considerably, and resulted in a more engaging and complex fragrance overall. I'm not sure how to generalize from this experience with patchouli oil to other types of perfumes or other materials but I agree with the idea that these choice materials can in fact be used to create something special and it is possible with careful work to incorporate them in such a way that they don't just become lost in / swamped by the blend and indistinguishable from a lesser product.

It depends on the role of the ingredient, like in La Verde a vintage mellowed sweet birch would be out of place, because i selected it to deliver that fresh punch the blend needed.
But in Tibetan, there is a thin line with the benzoin being functional or smelling cheapish. There the vintage stuff smells so classy that i get more playroom to add that layer of mysterious old monastry.
There's a place for everything, my grandpa used to say 🙂 but he was talking about the basement.

 

[Mr.P]

It depends on the role of the ingredient, like in La Verde a vintage mellowed sweet birch would be out of place, because i selected it to deliver that fresh punch the blend needed.
But in Tibetan, there is a thin line with the benzoin being functional or smelling cheapish. There the vintage stuff smells so classy that i get more playroom to add that layer of mysterious old monastry.
There's a place for everything, my grandpa used to say 🙂 but he was talking about the basement.

Did I make it sound like I was thinking that vintage stuff is universally better in any formula? Because I wouldn't expect that to be the case. like you say I would expect you to have to pick things based on their actual aroma and their relation to everything else in the blend.

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Did I make it sound like I was thinking that vintage stuff is universally better in any formula? Because I wouldn't expect that to be the case. like you say I would expect you to have to pick things based on their actual aroma and their relation to everything else in the blend.

No you didn't make it sound like that. I have this habit of only typing half my thoughts. I was thinking that it almost always pays to use generally better quality ingredients. While vintage it depends on the role etc.
Think we're on the exact same page here 🙂

 

[Mr.P]

No you didn't make it sound like that. I have this habit of only typing half my thoughts. I was thinking that it almost always pays to use generally better quality ingredients. While vintage it depends on the role etc.
Think we're on the exact same page here 🙂

The issue of "appropriate use of very rare or vintage materials" is one that I find myself pondering at times as I select things from my library for my own blends and as Ilook at some of the ingredients lists of luxury fragrances.

I do have a number of blends that I worked out with contemporary sustainable replaceable materials that really are intended to be showcases for rarities... someday once I work these out I'll try replacing a cultivated material with a wild one or a contemporary with a vintage but I'm always hesitant to do it.

I am sure it can be done with skill but I occasionally see ingredient lists and I'm thinking "no no no no no no no wait don't do it!" just because of the loss of the specimen materials and not because of any particular reaction to the fragrance itself.

 

[MaxFromHolland]

The issue of "appropriate use of very rare or vintage materials" is one that I find myself pondering at times as I select things from my library for my own blends and as Ilook at some of the ingredients lists of luxury fragrances.

I do have a number of blends that I worked out with contemporary sustainable replaceable materials that really are intended to be showcases for rarities... someday once I work these out I'll try replacing a cultivated material with a wild one or a contemporary with a vintage but I'm always hesitant to do it.

I am sure it can be done with skill but I occasionally see ingredient lists and I'm thinking "no no no no no no no wait don't do it!" just because of the loss of the specimen materials and not because of any particular reaction to the fragrance itself.

That's a tricky point indeed. Once you are the owner of something irreplaceable you become both curator and user. And those are conflicting hats to wear. To solve it in a practical way, i think either curate the bulk and allow for a small decant to use, or vice versa.
But i'm sure such can be a mentally challenging issue to deal with..
Even with my -not really rare yet, but not exactly cheap either-benzoin, taking 0,7 gr out kind of made me calculate how often i can do so..

Edit
My vintage oakmoss kind of fits that bill for me, because i love oakmoss and cannot imagine much of it being around. Im not using it other than sniffing it for reference while trying to extract a similar profile.

 

[MaxFromHolland]

That's a tricky point indeed. Once you are the owner of something irreplaceable you become both curator and user. And those are conflicting hats to wear. To solve it in a practical way, i think either curate the bulk and allow for a small decant to use, or vice versa.
But i'm sure such can be a mentally challenging issue to deal with..
Even with my -not really rare yet, but not exactly cheap either-benzoin, taking 0,7 gr out kind of made me calculate how often i can do so..

Edit
My vintage oakmoss kind of fits that bill for me, because i love oakmoss and cannot imagine much of it being around. Im not using it other than sniffing it for reference while trying to extract a similar profile.

Im aware that both examples are replaceable btw, just not in my lifetime.. Not comparable with material that simply doesn't exits anymore.

 

[roflwaffle]

Im aware that both examples are replaceable btw, just not in my lifetime.. Not comparable with material that simply doesn't exits anymore.

Super interesting topic I think. Replacing with another aged/vintage oakmoss, probably not too difficult, a 4/10. Finding one with similar notes to what you have, 7/10, prob spendy as you'd likely cycle through a few. Finding that exact expression of it, is where it gets often maddeningly hard. Not to say the others are worse in any way, could even be better in most ways, it's both exceedingly rare, and mildly common. Same with most vintage goods, likely better out there at a cost without a lot of work, but disturbingly hard at times to find an exact replacement. A watch with that same level of patina and condition, that specific vintage beverage of choice, or made by that particular artisinal maker, or honey that tastes like your jar of that one from that hippy guy at the farmers market back in 2013 or whatever the genre.

It is often worse with things that unlike patchouli, have a shelf life and you're sitting on something beautiful, but on its decline, so one that recapture that, gets amplified by memory, and often impossible to reproduce to the level of the memory of it

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Super interesting topic I think. Replacing with another aged/vintage oakmoss, probably not too difficult, a 4/10. Finding one with similar notes to what you have, 7/10, prob spendy as you'd likely cycle through a few. Finding that exact expression of it, is where it gets often maddeningly hard. Not to say the others are worse in any way, could even be better in most ways, it's both exceedingly rare, and mildly common. Same with most vintage goods, likely better out there at a cost without a lot of work, but disturbingly hard at times to find an exact replacement. A watch with that same level of patina and condition, that specific vintage beverage of choice, or made by that particular artisinal maker, or honey that tastes like your jar of that one from that hippy guy at the farmers market back in 2013 or whatever the genre.

It is often worse with things that unlike patchouli, have a shelf life and you're sitting on something beautiful, but on its decline, so one that recapture that, gets amplified by memory, and often impossible to reproduce to the level of the memory of it

I think the take-away for me personally would be that if i run into something unusual, not to buy it if i would make me uncomfortable using it, unless it is for reference purposes. After all i'm not a collector.

 

[roflwaffle]

I think the take-away for me personally would be that if i run into something unusual, not to buy it if i would make me uncomfortable using it, unless it is for reference purposes. After all i'm not a collector.

Interesting. I take it as a challenge to remind myself to use it, I'd rather have the unusual thing to love and lose than to never have loved at all 😉

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Just a hint of Sweet Birch working wonders. Suddenly there is air and space around the notes, the vetiver no longer surrounded but supported in reveiling its notes. The black pepper seems richer, the citrus brighter.
Now there is a story. From the open with a herbal green it seems to become and incense scent. But soon a warm citrus emerges from the incense, only to become brighter, like the sun leaving the clouds behind. Then slowly you become aware of wat seems a Haïti vetiver, fresh and light. But the more the citrus fades, the more the vetiver reveals its true south Indian identity.
It's like a journey starting on the Swiss alps, via Rome to the south of Italy, to Haïti, final destination the south of India. Better take a plane back to swipe some more 🙂

If this matures without weird surprises, I don't think there's much to improve or change.

View attachment 56589

Couldn't resist to try a another variation, after all the purpose is to learn. I reduced the oakmoss and petitgrain a bit for the benefit of the vetiver and frankincense.
Well, the whole thing fell apart. To summarize: sweet birch now dominates the open; bitter green is lost for a sweet citrus almost straight from the open; transition to heart is now something vague & undecypherable and includes at time some vague hint of baby poop; smoke from vetiver is to early; clear incense phase between citrus and vetiver, thus losing the illusion of the Haïti vetiver all together; and it does nothing for the vetiver in the drydown, in fact the tobacco seems to live a life of its own as opposed to providing shade.
Maybe the percentage changes are rather large, yet the effect is much more than what i had expected non the less.
Guess tweaking is about 0,5% steps, maybe even less if my old nose ever gets trained to that level 🙂

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Interesting. I take it as a challenge to remind myself to use it, I'd rather have the unusual thing to love and lose than to never have loved at all 😉

Thats not it. More the idea that the material would be wasted on me for i probably wouldn't be able to use it to its full potential, or whatever, along those lines 🙂

 

[MaxFromHolland]

Couldn't resist to try a another variation, after all the purpose is to learn. I reduced the oakmoss and petitgrain a bit for the benefit of the vetiver and frankincense.
Well, the whole thing fell apart. To summarize: sweet birch now dominates the open; bitter green is lost for a sweet citrus almost straight from the open; transition to heart is now something vague & undecypherable and includes at time some vague hint of baby poop; smoke from vetiver is to early; clear incense phase between citrus and vetiver, thus losing the illusion of the Haïti vetiver all together; and it does nothing for the vetiver in the drydown, in fact the tobacco seems to live a life of its own as opposed to providing shade.
Maybe the percentage changes are rather large, yet the effect is much more than what i had expected non the less.
Guess tweaking is about 0,5% steps, maybe even less if my old nose ever gets trained to that level 🙂

View attachment 56622

Ofcourse, you dont have to reduce something to add something else (duh!) 🤯 thats the pitfall of thinking in percentages. Just add or reduce something to sniff if the desired effect improves and re-calculate at the end to see the %..

Live & learn (again..) 🙂