Oud Distillation

agarwoodindonesia said:
Any information on steam/hydro techniques reasoning? different apparatus? how it affects the oil? How to tell in which method an oil was distilled by smell? why choose hydro over steam and visa versa? this would be very useful information? Can anyone help? 🙄
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Assalaam'alaikum, finally I join this forum, ehehehe after thinking and thinking. Anyway since this is rather technical it maybe a trade secret involved in so distiller's rather hold their back in this topic. Oil produce by water and steam distillation usually having higher top notes and lighter color but not always, due the contact of steam is direct contact with the raw material and the steam penetrates quickly leaving the harder resin, in which why would call steam distillation is "purer" in some way. As for hydro distillation the process is applying as hydrodifusion, which means the water break into the cell forcing the cell content to get out and replaced by water, and then water mixed with the eo and some of soluble resin get boiled and vaporized and catch by the condenser. the hydro would usually in my opinion " old" type of aroma, which means deep and least top note. Strong on the middle and base. But the way to find what really different is by GC-MS.
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Welcome on board and thank you for your explanation, in regards to yield which method would work better? and is wood soaked even when it is distilled via steam?
 
Habz786 soaking with water only will not effect the yield 🙂, yes there is claim for it. But from my experiments this claim is not applicable everywhere. Meaning certain woods corresponded differently and need certain treatment. One cannot just dump wood and soaked out for weeks or months, I am not on that line. Recently I use soaking for my new oils such as candan fantasy and Tashreef and even found out a new way for soaking with better result on both yield and aroma in which I applied to Ratu Kencana, Sentana Dalem and Fine Bengalon. It took less time and energy with great yield and superb aroma. But like I told you before every wood is unique you cannot just use a single technique rather applied many ways to achieve it. Hydro took more time in it's preparation if you talk about the soaking, yield usually lesser sometimes better than water and steam distillation depending on the wood use. and it's character Perhaps I will apply hydro in the near future. I stick with water and steam for now.
 
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Agarwoodindonesia - I am wearing that aceh oil from 2011. It has really matured nicely - very rich resinous notes... smelling it closely I get a hint of scents I associate with old merauke and irian jaya oud. Somehow i missed that association until now. This is a phenomenal oud oil.
 
Steam distillation is the preferred distillation method in most major EO factories as the yield is higher than in hydro. With the regulation of pressure and temperature the distiller can also control the type of oil that they extract. The challenge with steam is ensuring that the bio matter is not 'burnt', due to the higher temperature that steam carries. There is also the challenge of ensuring that the steam reaches all of the bio matter and does not channel through parts of it. This can be particular difficult with fine dust as they can cake. There is a lot more that can go wrong in steam distillation , but if the distiller is skilled there is also a lot more control on the final product via steam distillation.


As agarwoodIndonesia mentioned with the water distillation where the biomatter is immersed in the water, the oil produced is accompanied with other elements that come up in the 'stew'. This method is a lot safer and the water works as an insulator around the biomatter and protects it from over heating. The yield in water distillation in general is less than steam.


Based on research soaking does help yield. However the soaking can not exceed a certain length of time. This length of time is based on the time required for the wood cell wall structures to loosen up or break. If the wood is soaked too long then the environment because acidic and the acidity destroys the oils, therefore resulting in less oil. This is why understanding the wood, and spending time with the wood is one of the most important steps if not The most important step.


Would that is not soaked the oil is restrained by the cell walls, some of the oils will always remain behind in the inside the fibres of the wood if they are not previously softened. This softness does not necessarily equate to physical softness. We are talking at the cellular level.
 
salams akhi, so how does one decide how long to soak for? or whether to use steam or hydro distillation? is there some kind of way/formula to gauge how long to soak for or whether to use steam or hydro?
 
Abdullah said:
salams akhi, so how does one decide how long to soak for? or whether to use steam or hydro distillation? is there some kind of way/formula to gauge how long to soak for or whether to use steam or hydro?
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Salam Abdullah,


very intetesting question.


Al shareef talk about spending time and hunderstanding the wood, for me this mean there is no 1+1 formula.


Maybe they make test batch with a small quantity of wood when they think getting the right way.
 
Abdullah said:
salams akhi, so how does one decide how long to soak for? or whether to use steam or hydro distillation? is there some kind of way/formula to gauge how long to soak for or whether to use steam or hydro?
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wsalams brother. yes maybe they do that. would be good to get an answer from one of the distillers on here
 
@Abdullah


There are guidelines for the length of soak, depending on the depth of scent and types of wood. Also for what genre of scent each method of distillation generally produces. Based on the study and feel/understanding of the wood the artist can apply their knowledge to what will be the best method for the scent they want to create. Then it is up to the distiller based on their understanding of what they want to create, they can apply the tools at their disposal to decide how long they want to soak a specific batch, and whether they use copper or steel, water, steam or hydrofusion. These aspect are governed by how skilled the artist is in their art, and how well they understand the different aspects of the distillation life cycle. But as Jalil mentioned there isnt a strict 1+1 formula.
 
@Abdullah
There are guidelines for the length of soak, depending on the depth of scent and types of wood. Also for what genre of scent each method of distillation generally produces. Based on the study and feel/understanding of the wood the artist can apply their knowledge to what will be the best method for the scent they want to create. Then it is up to the distiller based on their understanding of what they want to create, they can apply the tools at their disposal to decide how long they want to soak a specific batch, and whether they use copper or steel, water, steam or hydrofusion. These aspect are governed by how skilled the artist is in their art, and how well they understand the different aspects of the distillation life cycle. But as Jalil mentioned there isnt a strict 1+1 formula.
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so its just trial and error? learned through years of study and practice?
 
Abdullah
I wouldn't say trial and error. It more about understanding the concepts in detail and how strictly you apply them is up to the distiller.
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ok jzkk akhi. i know you can't give away your secrets. i think i understand.
 
Abdullah said:
Abdullah
I wouldn't say trial and error. It more about understanding the concepts in detail and how strictly you apply them is up to the distiller.
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ok jzkk akhi. i know you can't give away your secrets. i think i understand.
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The secret is practice 😉
 
Habz786 said:
Jalil have you been practicing in your home 😛 when you releasing your first oil lol
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who know?! héhéhé


I dont say Iam batman...just nobody see me and batman in the same room 😉
 
Habz, having conducted a few distillations across a variety of regions the average i would say is around a tola. However as Adam has mentioned it depends massively on the type of wood used and cooking parameters. I think Mohamed (AWI) mentioned earlier that soaking for them didnt yield much difference in qty but more to do with compounds. The gentleman he spoke about i can confirm is a "mad Scientist" of essential oils, i had the pleasure of meeting him and speaking about this subject in great length. maybe some species will yield greater volume if soaked longer, some may release different compounds changing the profile of the oil. There are definitely no hard and fast rules for agarwood distillation, and hence the abundance of variety of oil.
 
@distillers/vendors


So is it correct to assume that the information regarding understanding the concepts of distillation (as mentioned by alshareef) lay in the hands of master distillers ? In a meaning..it's not something you can get by attending a course or studying some books?
 
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