McOudtrade
True Ouddict
I've been experimenting with tilting the microscope while recording video, a technique which let's you see depth. Could do better stability wise, but I think it's decent.
![[Ouddict.com] Oud Wood](https://www.ouddict.com/attachments/1000001429-webp.37767/ "[Ouddict.com] Oud Wood")
![[Ouddict.com] Oud Wood](https://www.ouddict.com/attachments/1000001428-webp.37768/ "[Ouddict.com] Oud Wood")
Oud Wood
- Thread starter AbasFrag
- Start date
Xerohome
True Ouddict
that is beautiful
is it malaysian oud?
McOudtrade
True Ouddict
I actually have no idea, it's a heartwood log, tobacco/resin/spicey profile.
Would be great for beads anyway, it's very solid. I'm thinking of cutting it in half and saving a slab for fine folks to try.
iori
親月
light box, if you getting one get one with great lights it make taking detailed stuff way easier, and sony camera with macro lens.
-Renton-
True Ouddict
I have a white light already for Seasonal Depression with 10,000 LUX light, same thing? What camera do you use, what model?
iori
親月
As for light box's you can check them here.
The camera is Sony SLT-A65V.
-Renton-
True Ouddict
Thank you!!!
can u describe the sent please?
YusaAromatics
True Ouddict
I will burn it again tonight and try to describe it to you ..
Escentually
True Ouddict
Beautiful wood and great pic, it looks good enough to eat!
-Renton-
True Ouddict
Funnily enough, YOU CAN. Haha, I dont know if its all kyara that numbs your mouth, or just green, but it certainly looks quite gourmet doesnt it? Imagine that pic is with just my S22, what would it be like with a £250-300 camera with a micro scope zoom? I have tested the 12m and 50m camera for a lot of woods and other pics, the 12m is somehow much better than 50mp? Weird, huh? You would think, higher megapixels, higher quality, but apparently Samsung was like, NOPE. 😂
And the 12 vs 50mp isnt just with woods, 12mp is better than 50mp at all things with this phone. Much clearer and detailed.
TheDarkKnight
True Ouddict
I had to spend the whole afternoon to find this section of your writing and save the information about Kyukyodo. Thank you very much for your sharing. I am curious about whether the differences in concepts and standards of kinam and kyara are causing much confusion among people. It seems that kyara is a broader concept than kinam. However, I am still quite curious about a few points:
- The regions classified as kyara in the past could originate from the southern regions of China (An Nam, Champa, or present-day Vietnam), where the port of HuiAn was located and also where it was believed that large amounts of kinam were traded and supplied to Japan. The name kyara also seems to originate from this area. It is a general name according to Rikkoku Gomi, but for agarwood, it is also called by the name Kyara? Is this according to the origin of Rikkoku Gomi or by the identifying characteristics as kinam?
- The oil quality of some types of Kyara tends to be soft and easily fragrant at low temperatures. Although the scent is very good, it seems to differ significantly from the current kinam standards (somewhat hard, dry, and requiring high temperatures to emit fragrance). And is it true that species like A. Sinensis from Hainan also produce quality pieces, and when purchased, they are classified and called Shin Kyara or Kyara? Because, in fact, the characteristics of some pieces called kyara differ from kinam.
language scent
True Woodict
I will say that iori will give you a better answer first, but i want to say something about this. the first realization of kinam/kyara from japan was in vietnam. japan has a huge history of kinam/kyara sourced from vietnam and there have been so many many kodo masters who knew that vietnam was the pinnacle of kyara/kinam. there is no true misconception of what is kyara/kinam and no other region can compete with the vietnamese kinam/kyara. however, the hainan agarwood of highest aromatic qualities is better than at least 60% of the kyara I have tried because it is rich complex has all sweet/bitter/sour/spicy/salt balanced and also flowers/fruits/herbs balanced along with amazing feelings effects. this is something special when it is top grade hainan agarwood so good that they sell it as kyara and it is as good as the best black and purple kyara in my eyes personally. what has been the benchmark of hainan being sold as kyara is the sensitivity of the aroma at low heat. it will be easily smelled at 60c and continue to emit beautiful perfumy aroma at higher temperatures also and even at higher temperatures it will smell perfumy sometimes a bit overwhelming tho because it is potent wood and too much fumes will come from high heat it is best for fumigation and not sticking yout nose over the heater lol
there is many hard kyara that smells easily at 60c temp and continues all the way to high heat. top grade is mostly about unique and rare quality aroma that has balanced all that i mentioned about the hainan but with a shine and sparkle that is unique. there are kyaras that have hard parts, soft parts, parts that need high heat and parts that need low heat and parts that perform in all heat and this is the same chunk of kyara. the treasure of japan that i sent you sample of i sent you the hard part and also its softer part, it is from the same piece of kyara. i will one day take a video to shave a slice of the soft part and people will see it curl shave and when i try it on the harder part of it it will crumble and shave off as if it is a salt crystal being shaved. the softer part of the kyaras with strong aroma at room temperature are parts of the kyara that did not have much resin formation. this resin in time and temperature/pressure changes of many many years had oils moving from it and into the parts of the wood that did not have resin so these parts turned soft and waxy and the oil is smelled easier while the resinous ones contain the oil within so not so aromatic at room temp, but they still can be if they are shaved around the whole piece to show fresh oil duct
as far as shin kyara name, i do not understand why they call it shin kyara. also cant comment on the rikoku gomi thing i never really got into the terms used by any of the philosophy or chinese or vietnam or taiwan or japan even tho i believe the japan is the most advanced realizations of the rest i mentioned. i do not know much about the vietnam but also never got any logic from people who sold from vietnam it seemed to me they had the same ideas as chinese and they were never logical to me. if you know a collector with knowledge in vietnam ask him to join the forum so we can see his views and logic.
by the way, kyara and kinam is the same thing. since kyara is the highest grade aroma and balance along with unique and effects it is true to claim that kinam/kyara can be seen as an idea in other agawrood also. however for vietnamese merchents, they do not accept this because they have belief based on region and not of aroma. even tho aroma is specific in the vietnamese kyaras it is still extremely abundant in differences.
also, i have very soft pieces that need higher heat to give aroma and very hard pieces that do not perform well on high heat. so you see its nothing standard about the kyara, but it seem it is all about quality of aroma that can only be realized as unique if someone has a lot of experience in the unique woods. someone who smells middle grade garbage wood will smell a good grade agarwood and think its amazing but there is another 10 buildings above and it doesnt stop because aroma is not something anyone can easily understand just by smelling something once. it is a relationship that needs time to build. someone smells a kyara a couple times and has a illusion that he knows. sure but this illusion can change. i have sold many woods before, woods i had abundant size of, woods that werent to my taste etc...let me tell you, i regret selling so many woods that i thought i didnt like only to smell them months years later and be shocked of aroma i didnt realize before. its all crayzy with these woods. but yes for sure a good kyara that is of the highest order or also agarwood is easily realized as the top from first smell. but that doesnt mean a super crazy kyara doesnt exist that needs time to unfold and let your nose smell it completely...its like two beautiful girls, one will be easy and go to bed with you and the other will be very difficult and slow.
TheDarkKnight
True Ouddict
I also agree with most of what you shared. As I mentioned, if kyara is considered a region, then it’s understandable that this region would mix between kinam and high-grade agarwood. However, if kyara is seen as a standard of quality and special fragrance, this means that although Rikkoku Gomi refers to certain types as Kyara (based on the region), they would become jinko or another name if they do not meet the standards for kyara. This emphasizes that a name is used in two different situations, which causes some confusion and questions for me.
Experiencing and identifying sometimes does not happen on the first try, but when one has enough time and understanding, the experience of the scent is what always drives us to wonder, explore, and develop our sense of smell through various samples. As a saying I heard from someone goes: We cannot solve today's problems with our current thinking.
I realize that with some kinam pieces, there is the evaporation of oil on the surface, which makes the parts losing oil become more porous and softer. However, there is an oxidation phenomenon with the kinam pieces in my country, making the kinam pieces shinier, smoother, and less fragrant, and they do not change in weight over a long time. But when this outer layer is removed, the fragrance released at room temperature is truly wonderful.
language scent
True Woodict
yea there are some pieces that are hard to the touch on the outer later is even thick but when i cut through them to sell some or gift some the core is softer. these are usually pieces that had been cut hundreds of years ago to 1-2gram pieces. one very old kyara was dry on the outside and hard to the touch when i cut with the saw it cur the first millimeter like it was cutting a rock and then all the suffen the powder started to come out like it was gummy resin sticky and oilyand then the aroma exploded. it was as if the shell contained and preserved all the inside for me to experience it hundreds of years later. i think i sent you a sample, 61 kind famous "deep red" kyara. a really unique aroma after 120c
even the vietnamese kyara is so different notes between them but even they have standards. the greens for example i have noticed have many different backbones and many that are different within the specific backbones. and same exist for the purple black and yellow. but even this backbone is not really a back bone mora than it is just the tastes that come together to give an image and story to the noses mind. the agarwoods that are way more beautiful than a lot of the kyaras still can not fit in the feeling of the kyara, and i am not talking about effects but more the way the aroma creates a mindstate of its whole, the kyara gives like a 5dementional feeling of the minds view of its aura and the agarwood is still a primitive 3d even tho it is in many cases extremely better than the basic kyara. these are very rare pieces of agarwood that behave as kyara as far as heating property and depth go, but they are clearly not kyara. so kyara or not doesnt matter really. it has all just been made to be a profit thing by chinese and other merchants. agarwood can have extremely high prices too.
thai kinam and pursat baby kinam, these are also easy to view as close to vietnamese kinam it is very difficult to know the difference as the pursat is extremely similar to the vietnamese yellow kyara inn many cases and the thai kinam is very close to purple and black vietnamese kyara. some of the thai is way better than the vietnamese as far as aroma quality and depth uniqueness. so you see its no standard that some region makes always the best, but it is true that the best has come from vietnam lol ironically now the vietnam is existing mostly in japan. i say 90% of all the top unique pieces that were harvested in vietnam are existing in japan now. maybe 5% in taiwan/china/singapore and the other 5% in collectors of vietnam. this is what i believe...now vietnam and china/taiwan/singapore have a lot of bad grade kyara. especially on the market. its bad not worth the prices they sell it in any case and especially the taiwan/china they sell inferior for even more.
iori
親月
I already addressed most of this in earlier posts but sadly having to repeat it every time.
Kyara, Qinan and Kinam different words for the same thing, and i mentioned to you in earlier post, in Japanese standard its narrower not broader, many woods called Kyara/Qinan in Chinese, HK, Taiwan and Vientnamese market and in japan it doesn't fall under Kyara, its labeled under something else "Rakoku, Managa and Manaban".
"Zen silence" The most important aesthetic for Japanese incense That's They don't call it "smell the incense" but "listen to the incense", While Japanese and Chinese have difference in ther views and taste for incense, The top circles in there also crystal clear about what is Kyara and what isn't.
And from where exactly you get this information?
In Japan Kyara comes from Vietnam however there is some sources include Cambodia and part of Thailand "like Shoyeido".
The name Kyara got nothing with what you mentioned it comes from Sanskrit and it means black and it was used to describe a unique beautiful scent, in Edo city the word "Kyara" became a highly complimentary word, "Kyara woman meant beautiful woman, Kyara clogs meant High quality clogs etc".
There Kyara under the classification of Agarwood but there is no Agarwood under the classification of Kyara, Again "There is Kyara under the classification of Rakoku, Managa and Manaban, There is no Rakoku, Managa and Manaban under the classification of Kyara".
Just like there is some soft Kyara's there is hard ones was it old harvested or newly harvested and there is a single pieces small or big with different oil levels and hardness and colors.
There many big pieces from old times with dry hard looking skin but when cut the oil start to bleed of it as there is some harden exterior and interior there is many pieces doesn't get this effect, in short as long piece meet certain standard its called Kyara, now what its ranked is another story.
Well they are your standards not Chinese or Japanese standards, and what's the problem with soft oil pieces?, While in Japan aroma is what determine the Value and grade of the Kyara, in old china and till now the Softer Oil pieces always considered the superior pieces over the hard oiled ones, as the later closer to Agarwood than Qinan, and even many of the old pieces i saw was it in raw form or cut there is waxy soft wet and there is dry, many of dry looking Kyaras can be found udner Rakoku/Managa/Manaban depends on classification of look and aroma.
Hainan Agarwood is considered one of the best if not the best by many, however lacking of its materials is what causing decline in the quality, while there is many great pieces the average pieces is way more, and they got nothing to do with Shinkyara and Kyara, while in China, HK and Taiwan you might find Hainan Kinam i haven't seen any Kodo master or company list it as Kyara producing area, i don't claim to have known all masters or companies but at least main streams don't have it listed as Kyara Producing area.
Now is there a Kyara in there? yes there is but you will have to reach Chinese market for it, and it seem you are one of those you believe only Crassna can produce Kyara?
I spoke about Shin Kyara alot and its uses, sadly have to repeat it every time.
There is 3 uses i know of and this info came from kodo master.
1- The year of arrival in japan is later than a certain year will be called Shinkyara even if its real Kyara.
2- Strict standards for Kyara by certain masters and wood doesn't meet it called Shinkyara.
3- Kyara where resinification has progressed for only a few years or to a lesser extent is designated as Shinkyara. its also called young Kyara or shallow Kyara.
The term Shinkyara isn't used by everyone there is certain schools use it and there is some doesn't "Shoyeido doesn't have it".
Again your standards doesn't mean everyone standards, you call something Kinam and others call it Agarwood and others call a piece Kinam and you call it something else.
Last not least here an example of super old dry looking Shino Ryu Kyara under the Rakoku classification, Ranked best.
TheDarkKnight
True Ouddict
Regarding the use of terminology, it's similar to how you refer to kyara, while I refer to kinam. The different terms are like how your language describes the color red, while in my language it’s called “Đỏ.” Clarifying these perspectives is quite important to me, as it helps avoid differing viewpoints and leads to fewer conflicts about identifying a type of aromatic wood.
Each country categorizes and names it differently, which is why I raised my question about the term kyara. I understand your point about implying that kyara represents the best and highest quality. However, using it for an entire subgroup of aromatic wood (here kinam) while also using it for Rakoku and Managa raises the question of how to know when kyara is kinam and when kyara is a high-quality Rakoku or Managa (while Rakoku or Managa are not kyara). This is something I truly don’t understand yet. As for Qinan or Kinam being the same, I do know that because my country and China have a certain linguistic relationship. But with kyara, I’m not sure, and that’s why I brought this up to ask you and other members who know more about this than I do.
The historical documents and woodblock prints of my country from 300 years ago noted these things, from the time we expanded our territory southward (to ancient Champa, now Vietnam). Before that period, I'm not sure how they conducted trade in kinam blocks. However, according to some old records, the harvesting of kinam during that time was prohibited, and even punishable by death if discovered. Any kinam blocks found were to be surrendered to the king. It's possible that Japan collected these pieces through diplomatic missions or exchanges between nations.
This is perhaps the most valuable point I've found among the ideas you just mentioned. It connects quite a lot of information that I've gathered during my collection process. My issue is not implying that hard oil and not soft oil is kyara; rather, I'm looking into the origins and recognition of kyara in Japan and when a piece of soft oil would be considered kyara. I completely agree with you that the most important thing here is the aroma, which will determine everything.
I’ll share something additional with you that you might not know about, as even the Japanese might not be aware of it. The softness or hardness of the oil depends on the timing of harvesting the kinam/kyara. When a tree is in the process of growing and accumulating oil, if it is harvested, it will have a soft, moist, and oily feel with a very strong aroma. We call this "lively" oil. When these trees wither and die (partially or completely), the oil in the tree dries out, becoming harder and more brittle, with a lack of vitality. We call this "dead" oil. This is something that only those who directly harvest at different times of the tree's life can understand, explaining part of why there is a difference between these types. There are also one or two other types, but I won't mention them here. And therefore, I have no prejudice against soft oil kyara.
I don't have much experience with the type you mentioned, so I'll wait for an opportunity to experience it in the future. As for shin kyara, you've shared those points before. I think this term will be quite interesting and needs further clarification, rather than some general concepts.
I understand that you are saying Shino Ryu Kyara is a kyara named or owned by Shino Ryo, but it is classified as Rakoku. I thought Rakoku was a geographical region according to Rikkoku Gomi. Or is it that, based on geographical divisions, the Japanese have a different way of classifying into six basic scent types, which are also named Kyara, Rakoku, Managa, Manaban, Sasora, and Sumotara? I really didn't know this. Could you clarify this point further?
Anw, your piece is so great.
