"Divorce in Taiwan" - who is EO talking about?

[language scent]

This is maybe the best post I've ever read on this forum, tbh.

I'm a relative newcomer to the world of oud. I've only been exploring oud for 18 months, maybe 2 years—I don't know exactly.

What I have come to discover is that the entirety of the oud market is built upon distrust. That is to say, every oud seller seems to imply, sometimes in explicit language, that THEIR oud is the real deal, the best—and by implication, that other sellers' ouds are not to be trusted, that they aren't real. Again, sometimes this language is explicit, sometimes it is not.

Ensar is, of course, as guilty of this as anyone. But I've seen so many wild, baseless accusations on this forum thrown at Ensar, too. In that sense, I understand why Ensar's marketing is so fear-based.

I am coming to understand that a crucial reason behind this negation-based marketing is that many oud sellers are actually selling product from the same distillers. I have no idea the scope of this practice, but I'm coming to understand that it is true. So, of course, how do you differentiate yourself in a market where your competitors are selling the same (or extremely similar) products? Marketing. And when one competitor engages in fear-based or "negative" marketing, it behooves you (the hypothetical you) to do the same.

Perhaps Ensar was the first to engage in this practice, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't. This seems to be an affliction that plagues the oud market writ large.

The issue is that as fear-based marketing gains more and more traction, it becomes more and more difficult to figure out who to trust.

For the time being, all I can trust is my nose.

Anyway, I want to reaffirm @zeedubbya 's sentiment. I genuinely hope the oud market can rise above this petty drama and fear-based marketing. There is so much for everyone to gain if that were the case. Obviously, I don't know that will happen. But I hope it does.

whats worse in your eyes? for jungle george to imply their oud is better than jimmy beanz oil or jimmy beanz claiming his oil is better? but keep in mind jimmy beans oil is 50% pure agarwood oil and 50% some oily chemical and other garbage but jungle g got pure unadulterated oud oil.....they can all cry all they want and try to tell people that their stuff is the best but it all comes down to blind faith again for those who listen to them. i just dont inderstand how in aaaaaaaaaaaaaall these years of oud oils and all the greed infested tricks THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT LOL there isnt more than a hand full of distillers and vendors exposing the trash and the trash being used to pretend that YOU are getting a pure oud oil!!! the trash thats being used to bulk or cheat! bad advertising isnt anything next to guity lack of transparency and assurance of purity. the how is something that can definitely be applied, but i dont see it happening. any oil you buy from anyone only you can say what you like or not, so if someone uses advanced advertisement to get you into buying an oil or a bunch of his oils and you dont like them better than someone elses oils that doesnt mean the guy who sold them to you tricked you or that the oils you like are better than the ones you dont like.

 

[Mr.P]

This is maybe the best post I've ever read on this forum, tbh.

I'm a relative newcomer to the world of oud. I've only been exploring oud for 18 months, maybe 2 years—I don't know exactly.

What I have come to discover is that the entirety of the oud market is built upon distrust. That is to say, every oud seller seems to imply, sometimes in explicit language, that THEIR oud is the real deal, the best—and by implication, that other sellers' ouds are not to be trusted, that they aren't real. Again, sometimes this language is explicit, sometimes it is not.

Ensar is, of course, as guilty of this as anyone. But I've seen so many wild, baseless accusations on this forum thrown at Ensar, too. In that sense, I understand why Ensar's marketing is so fear-based.

I am coming to understand that a crucial reason behind this negation-based marketing is that many oud sellers are actually selling product from the same distillers. I have no idea the scope of this practice, but I'm coming to understand that it is true. So, of course, how do you differentiate yourself in a market where your competitors are selling the same (or extremely similar) products? Marketing. And when one competitor engages in fear-based or "negative" marketing, it behooves you (the hypothetical you) to do the same.

Perhaps Ensar was the first to engage in this practice, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't. This seems to be an affliction that plagues the oud market writ large.

The issue is that as fear-based marketing gains more and more traction, it becomes more and more difficult to figure out who to trust.

For the time being, all I can trust is my nose.

Anyway, I want to reaffirm @zeedubbya 's sentiment. I genuinely hope the oud market can rise above this petty drama and fear-based marketing. There is so much for everyone to gain if that were the case. Obviously, I don't know that will happen. But I hope it does.

I think it needs to be done from the ground up


So it sounds like olefaktory is pulling this off.

I wonder if any others will follow suit? I have expressed my doubts about some kind of global orchestrated testing, but I’ll certainly steer my money towards someone who can account for what they’re selling with more than fairy tales and doesn’t need to push others down to appear to be on top.

I think the competitor bashing is a consequence of the exaggeration of the rarity and preciousness of the product. I mean, if someone is supposedly selling the rarest and finest quality impossible to reproduce oil, why is it 70 other people are selling just about the same thing?

Somebody’s not telling the truth and it’s probably easier to imply or suggest that others are lying, than to admit that something you said might not have been the truth.

 

[c-z]

I think the competitor bashing is a consequence of the exaggeration of the rarity and preciousness of the product. I mean, if someone is supposedly selling the rarest and finest quality impossible to reproduce oil, why is it 70 other people are selling just about the same thing?

Somebody’s not telling the truth and it’s probably easier to imply or suggest that others are lying, than to admit that something you said might not have been the truth.

Yes, I think that's the primary issue at the root of this phenomenon.

The solution is to shift from a scarcity mindset to an abundance mindset. Of course, every currently-active vendor fears that the value of their product would crater in the process.

It's so funny to me how many analogues there are between the oud market and the alcohol (and, for that matter, illicit drug) market in the US.

 

[EJayB]

My desire to test is mostly for building a gcms test library of my own oils for self educating purposes and not for proof of purity because that goes back to a trust issue. I’ll offer the test results to customers and try to educate them as best I am able.
Because some people do want to know and others really don’t put that much thought into it.
I want to focus on what I’m doing and do it the best I can and share my passion with anyone who has the same passion .

 

[Musk Rahil]

My desire to test is mostly for building a gcms test library of my own oils for self educating purposes and not for proof of purity because that goes back to a trust issue. I’ll offer the test results to customers and try to educate them as best I am able.
Because some people do want to know and others really don’t put that much thought into it.
I want to focus on what I’m doing and do it the best I can and share my passion with anyone who has the same passion .

Very good decision 👏 passion must appreciate

 

[PersonelHigh]

100% brother!! I’m sending out my first samples to test soon . I’m just finishing a 3 tola batch of oud and a few new sandalwood oils that I will test before I sell and I’ll provide the test to customers

I looked around for testing places at one time and only found one in India. Can you or anyone recommend a lab?

 

[PersonelHigh]

I saw this blog post: https://www.ensaroud.com/blog/divorce-in-taiwan/ Anyone know who EO is talking about here?

Himself ~ he's the shark and purveyor. I've been bitten. It's all a projection.

"One reason is that not every nose is experienced enough to know what’s going on. A more sinister reason is that, because of pot conditioning, or a distiller’s signature smell (which can be detected in wild and farmed oils), you can tell someone that such and such an oud is basically just like another one."

 

[Al Shareef Oudh]

I am so tired of the whole thing. Agarwood and Oud appreciation should have entrenched itself into western culture by now, and it’s not, because of all the infighting and mis-information from ALL directions.

I consider myself a VERY astute observer of the retail world. I have worked in and around high $ retail for nearly 20 years. I have quite a lot of education/study on Micro Economics and advanced marketing. This being said, I’ve never seen such a promising product fail so miserably like Oud has. The huge fragrance houses and compounding companies have molested the product for their own gains like no other product I have seen, and the childish ways the “smaller guys” have taken to bashing each other relentlessly for their own personal gain is nauseating to me as a consumer. The unfriendliness and “fake” elitism and half truths told by so many vendors has held them back in ways they can’t comprehend. They’ve ALL placed casual and large consumers into a “can’t win” scenario in which a person like me feels like they can’t express the truth about liking a product due to the potential backlash from someone in the other faction. It’s sad, and it’s been highly detrimental to themselves in ways they can’t comprehend. Even as I write this, I think—how many hackles will be raised because of the truth I speak.

If Ford and GM, and now Tesla would take to personal attacks against on each other like these “Oud salesman” it would only serve to harm their brand image in a way which could likely never be repaired. How can they be so blind to what they are doing? Are they just this small-minded or is it a true ignorance toward retail marketing strategies which have worked time and time again to push a fledgling product forward? I am not saying they should all cooperate and “koombaya” their way to greater success but this great divisiveness which forces customers away from these bad taste tactics can be the ONLY explanation of why a product so beautiful and so well-loved by so many has failed to get of the ground like it really should.

The whole lot should hang their heads in shame knowing they have successfully pushed numerous people away who could have been great advocates for the furthering of the whole market in general. I frankly could care less about the verbose opinion of who is doing what and how they are doing it so wrong and how the consumer is getting pushed to believing these non-relevant stories and how they should take up arms and not support these “snake oil salesmen” when they themselves are no better. The better thing for the future of the entire Oud world would be proper education without the (obvious) ultra self conscious drivel that’s been put in front of us.

Here’s to hoping some day, some way, an Oud vendor will emerge from their ivory tower and instead of looking to cast stones toward others, decide to help a consumer down the correct path toward being a market advocate and an overall help to the market as a hole. Which will help them in the long run. Unfortunately I don’t see this happening and with the continued recognition of the harm of these tactics many good companies will fail. It’s my sincere hope in spite of this people will still see the possibilities of the hobby and the strength of the final product will eventually shoo away these blood suckers who can’t see past their own growing Pinocchio noses which are keeping them from forwarding their own agenda…but somehow I think they just don’t see it. Or get it. Time will tell, I just hope it’s not too late for Oud.

**If you have taken offense to anything I have written it’s probably because you are part of the problem…

Very well said.

One of the main reasons the BS mill continues is because people are afraid of speaking out. They are afraid of being attacked, accused, and even ostracized for voicing their concerns. Even in your own post you are aware of that same issue and you acknowledge it, for many customers it is a issue that they don't want to have to deal with. There is a proper cult that comes after customers when they do speak out against Ensar.

The down side of customers not speaking up is that the BS continues and it has for a long time online.

When the BS continues then fiction and non fiction get mixed up, Professional and amateurs get treated as one, and hence there is no knowledge source that can be trusted, because the doubt is cast over everyone.

The educated consumer has the key. The challenge for the consumer is to get educated and stop reading marketing BS.

On this particular topic as I have mentioned previously, a few years from now we will be looking back and finding a very similar situation with the Sultan Qaboos oils.

The story with the Taiwanese 'distillers' hasn't finished yet, I am sure there will be more uncoverings.

One of them approached us with all the juicey stories of their dealings with Ensar etc and my question to him was, do Taiwanese people use Oudh oil? His answer was 'no'. I wished him the best in his endeavours.

basics of logic, not even Oudh specific knowledge just basics of general transactional logic indicates that one should stay away from Sultan Qaboos and Taiwanese type of deals.

Just want to add this on as well. Many a times trying to disconnect myself from the picture and take a bird eye view of the situation, I often come to the conclusion from the claims vs reality, when I fact check the claims being made vs facts that either the claimants have no clue about oudh so their claims are out of total ignorance or they are deliberately cheating people.

 

[Arabiad07]

A few questions come to mind:

- if there is a lot of manipulation in this industry, what is the gold standard for quality and rare oils outside of vendors making extreme claims? Is it truly just trusting a vendor?

- if most vendors are not actually distilling their oils and selling from distillers, regardless of how honest and sincere a vendor is - is there not a chance their oils are also tainted or not as aged as claimed etc etc. They also have to trust the word of these distillers or the word of a collector

- it seems to me as long as there’s no standard to fall back to and compare oils to, and given how artisanal oils are made in such small batches - there will always be room for hyperbole and manipulation. What’s a buyer to do?

 

[Al Shareef Oudh]

A few questions come to mind:

- if there is a lot of manipulation in this industry, what is the gold standard for quality and rare oils outside of vendors making extreme claims? Is it truly just trusting a vendor?

- if most vendors are not actually distilling their oils and selling from distillers, regardless of how honest and sincere a vendor is - is there not a chance their oils are also tainted or not as aged as claimed etc etc. They also have to trust the word of these distillers or the word of a collector

- it seems to me as long as there’s no standard to fall back to and compare oils to, and given how artisanal oils are made in such small batches - there will always be room for hyperbole and manipulation. What’s a buyer to do?

One has to keep in mind that Oudh oils is a tradition in the Arab culture followed by the Indian culture. Understanding quality was something taught through an intimate father-son learning process. That quality identification process does vary from what has become prevalent amongst the online community.

When the online guys came onto the scene they came with a nose that had grown up with western sensibilities and sensitivities. Their hunt for Oudh was guided by that, and their lack of any understanding or training about scents. So they had to create a whole eco system to support their idea and notions of what is good Oudh. As they were pioneers online those information correct and incorrect has made the bulk of what people read and regurgitate.

So the answer to your question is not a simple one. Yes if they aren't distilling then they really need to understand Oudh to be able to discern good from bad and fake from real. Wild from plantation etc

Secondly if they are distilling themselves then to understand what is plantation and what is wild. Within their own posts there is enough evidence to demonstrate that they are distilling plantation oudhs and say it is wild. If you have done this long Enough you can even tell from the pulverised Oudh if it is plantation or wild, but it takes experience, and Knowledge and if those two are not there than a person is prisoner to their own whims.

 

[language scent]

A few questions come to mind:

- if there is a lot of manipulation in this industry, what is the gold standard for quality and rare oils outside of vendors making extreme claims? Is it truly just trusting a vendor?

- if most vendors are not actually distilling their oils and selling from distillers, regardless of how honest and sincere a vendor is - is there not a chance their oils are also tainted or not as aged as claimed etc etc. They also have to trust the word of these distillers or the word of a collector

- it seems to me as long as there’s no standard to fall back to and compare oils to, and given how artisanal oils are made in such small batches - there will always be room for hyperbole and manipulation. What’s a buyer to do?

not much the buyer can do unless distillers who are real will expose the trash that is being added to cheat people and then create a system where the buyer can know what the dangers are and what different tests to apply. now people in this game for 20+ years know ALL THE DIRTY TRICKS LOL not that they themselves use them....but i dont understand why we in this community especially the distillers and vendors, dont know or dont mention what these substances are..the constituents of pure oud oils are specific, extremely specific and the only thing that changes are %'s of the natural compounds, heavy metals (if any), glue, man made resins to make wood heavier that may also be distilled, inoculation chemicals etc that MAY end up in an oil as well, pesticides from the soil that may have been used before for other crops??? or maybe pesticides flowing via currents in rain to different parts and different farms? i dont know just a guess...so why arent any of these things known already and pinpointed so that they can be seen in tspecific tests? they can be sent to the labs to see them clearly and then be able to pin point them in products via testing. only thing a buyer can do if he wants to have pure crystal clarity of what they get is if knowledge upgrades and is shared by a specialist distiller and expert of the dirty tricks. now people find some crazy woods so there is no excuse that they cant find out or they dont know the chemicals used for the tricks whatever they may be.

 

[Al Shareef Oudh]

not much the buyer can do unless distillers who are real will expose the trash that is being added to cheat people and then create a system where the buyer can know what the dangers are and what different tests to apply. now people in this game for 20+ years know ALL THE DIRTY TRICKS LOL not that they themselves use them....but i dont understand why we in this community especially the distillers and vendors, dont know or dont mention what these substances are..the constituents of pure oud oils are specific, extremely specific and the only thing that changes are %'s of the natural compounds, heavy metals (if any), glue, man made resins to make wood heavier that may also be distilled, inoculation chemicals etc that MAY end up in an oil as well, pesticides from the soil that may have been used before for other crops??? or maybe pesticides flowing via currents in rain to different parts and different farms? i dont know just a guess...so why arent any of these things known already and pinpointed so that they can be seen in tspecific tests? they can be sent to the labs to see them clearly and then be able to pin point them in products via testing. only thing a buyer can do if he wants to have pure crystal clarity of what they get is if knowledge upgrades and is shared by a specialist distiller and expert of the dirty tricks. now people find some crazy woods so there is no excuse that they cant find out or they dont know the chemicals used for the tricks whatever they may be.

The constituents of Oudh are not specific. Different Oudh species have different constituents, some they share and others not.

This is one of the challenges for testing Oudh, if the lab testing does not have a library of known Oudh compounds then the test is meaningless.

Secondly even if they connect to the US Chemical database, if they do not have experience with Oudh at a academic level they won't know if the compounds they are witnessing is from oudh or not.

Finally they need to know what they are testing for and how to read that data.

Testing is a good idea, but it has to be the right test and interpretation of the test, and apart from the facility we work with I don't know of another one in the western world that has an understanding of Oudh.

 

[Arabiad07]

One has to keep in mind that Oudh oils is a tradition in the Arab culture followed by the Indian culture. Understanding quality was something taught through an intimate father-son learning process. That quality identification process does vary from what has become prevalent amongst the online community.

When the online guys came onto the scene they came with a nose that had grown up with western sensibilities and sensitivities. Their hunt for Oudh was guided by that, and their lack of any understanding or training about scents. So they had to create a whole eco system to support their idea and notions of what is good Oudh. As they were pioneers online those information correct and incorrect has made the bulk of what people read and regurgitate.

So the answer to your question is not a simple one. Yes if they aren't distilling then they really need to understand Oudh to be able to discern good from bad and fake from real. Wild from plantation etc

Secondly if they are distilling themselves then to understand what is plantation and what is wild. Within their own posts there is enough evidence to demonstrate that they are distilling plantation oudhs and say it is wild. If you have done this long Enough you can even tell from the pulverised Oudh if it is plantation or wild, but it takes experience, and Knowledge and if those two are not there than a person is prisoner to their own whims.

It appears the industry is suffering from a crises of lack of expertise in the matter on all levels.

 

[zeedubbya]

Very well said.

One of the main reasons the BS mill continues is because people are afraid of speaking out. They are afraid of being attacked, accused, and even ostracized for voicing their concerns. Even in your own post you are aware of that same issue and you acknowledge it, for many customers it is a issue that they don't want to have to deal with. There is a proper cult that comes after customers when they do speak out against Ensar.

The down side of customers not speaking up is that the BS continues and it has for a long time online.

When the BS continues then fiction and non fiction get mixed up, Professional and amateurs get treated as one, and hence there is no knowledge source that can be trusted, because the doubt is cast over everyone.

The educated consumer has the key. The challenge for the consumer is to get educated and stop reading marketing BS.

On this particular topic as I have mentioned previously, a few years from now we will be looking back and finding a very similar situation with the Sultan Qaboos oils.

The story with the Taiwanese 'distillers' hasn't finished yet, I am sure there will be more uncoverings.

One of them approached us with all the juicey stories of their dealings with Ensar etc and my question to him was, do Taiwanese people use Oudh oil? His answer was 'no'. I wished him the best in his endeavours.

basics of logic, not even Oudh specific knowledge just basics of general transactional logic indicates that one should stay away from Sultan Qaboos and Taiwanese type of deals.

Just want to add this on as well. Many a times trying to disconnect myself from the picture and take a bird eye view of the situation, I often come to the conclusion from the claims vs reality, when I fact check the claims being made vs facts that either the claimants have no clue about oudh so their claims are out of total ignorance or they are deliberately cheating people.

Thank you for the compliment on writing this respected Al Shareef. It actually took me over a month to write this out, and that’s how long it took me to post it-which is sad to admit. There’s more, and when the time is right I will post it up—the other part contains more dedicated/narrowed focus on vendors specifically. I wish to refine the words written in it and post it separately from this thread.

I leave my last post in this thread with one thought for anyone reading this, inside Ouddict or out. There’s bad actors and good ones in all communities and hobbies, but I find it deeply deeply troubling the amount of “vultures” in the Oud world. I am also sorry it gives the good ones a huge wall to climb when trying to make a living. I have no doubt some amazing curators/educators of this hobby have left due to this fact. I personally feel I have sorted out who to trust, who to ask questions of, and who to buy from. However, it’s been a long and difficult journey with some genuine jaw dropping treatment of me as a newbie a few years back. I’ve reached a point now where I have become so cynical toward the whole thing, I’ve nearly decided to close the book in spite of a DEEP love for Oud and Agarwood and Incense. I sincerely hope others have a different experience than me….

 

[language scent]

The constituents of Oudh are not specific. Different Oudh species have different constituents, some they share and others not.

This is one of the challenges for testing Oudh, if the lab testing does not have a library of known Oudh compounds then the test is meaningless.

Secondly even if they connect to the US Chemical database, if they do not have experience with Oudh at a academic level they won't know if the compounds they are witnessing is from oudh or not.

Finally they need to know what they are testing for and how to read that data.

Testing is a good idea, but it has to be the right test and interpretation of the test, and apart from the facility we work with I don't know of another one in the western world that has an understanding of Oudh.

what i ment about the constituents is that if you distill from a bunch of different regions there will always be standard things that they share. of course each wood has different terpenes and notes but they are from specific % of the compounds that all agars have more or less. so it shouldnt be impossible for the tracing of oud oil that is pure to exist. i am sure its not an easy topic, but it is a topic that the biggest names in the business should want to stride in unlocking for the sake of the future of these things and for the love and not let the cheaters rob people and also possibly put peoples health in danger. so it is a multifacet topic and would be a blessing to see how it evolves

 

[EJayB]

I looked around for testing places at one time and only found one in India. Can you or anyone recommend a lab?

Grandawood in Australia is an AGARWOOD producer of plantation wood with a large data bank of wild and cultivated oils and they will test wood or oil from AGARWOOD for around $250 , the Canadian company I use also has a large data bank of oud . As oud becomes more popular in mainstream markets the need for testing has grown. As the market grows in the non traditional oud oil direction and the fermented oil market becomes less dominant in the overall market economy of oud , testing will play a bigger part .
Traditional oud isn’t going anywhere but as the western market grows and AGARWOOD oil use grows it’s growing in the western fashion that demands transparent clarity and clean smelling non fermented oud . To each his own and each market has its own audience and they aren’t the same and they don’t really cross each other very often.
some people can’t stand or understand fermented oils and other can’t see the beauty in unfermented oils . That’s why we basically have 2 markets in the oud world .
Very different customer bases between the two but I honestly love it all !!

 

[Hamza H]

Very well said.

One of the main reasons the BS mill continues is because people are afraid of speaking out. They are afraid of being attacked, accused, and even ostracized for voicing their concerns. Even in your own post you are aware of that same issue and you acknowledge it, for many customers it is a issue that they don't want to have to deal with. There is a proper cult that comes after customers when they do speak out against Ensar.

The down side of customers not speaking up is that the BS continues and it has for a long time online.

When the BS continues then fiction and non fiction get mixed up, Professional and amateurs get treated as one, and hence there is no knowledge source that can be trusted, because the doubt is cast over everyone.

The educated consumer has the key. The challenge for the consumer is to get educated and stop reading marketing BS.

On this particular topic as I have mentioned previously, a few years from now we will be looking back and finding a very similar situation with the Sultan Qaboos oils.

The story with the Taiwanese 'distillers' hasn't finished yet, I am sure there will be more uncoverings.

One of them approached us with all the juicey stories of their dealings with Ensar etc and my question to him was, do Taiwanese people use Oudh oil? His answer was 'no'. I wished him the best in his endeavours.

basics of logic, not even Oudh specific knowledge just basics of general transactional logic indicates that one should stay away from Sultan Qaboos and Taiwanese type of deals.

Just want to add this on as well. Many a times trying to disconnect myself from the picture and take a bird eye view of the situation, I often come to the conclusion from the claims vs reality, when I fact check the claims being made vs facts that either the claimants have no clue about oudh so their claims are out of total ignorance or they are deliberately cheating people.

It’s well known to those that deal almost exclusively in Taiwanese Oud that they do not use Oud oil. I don’t understand what the issue with this is?

 

[EJayB]

It’s well known to those that deal almost exclusively in Taiwanese Oud that they do not use Oud oil. I don’t understand what the issue with this is?

I for one like doing business with people who use the product they make . Who are they marketing to if they don’t use the products?
In my opinion the passion isn’t there when the product isn’t used by the one making and marketing it .
In the cannabis world it’s such a big money play with billions on the table everyone came running to get their piece .
Problem is they don’t even know what customers want or what is not wanted . It’s all numbers on paper not actual quality.
Yields, potency time frame , color yes but actual quality … no
Non users have no clue what consumers want and it’s beyond obvious.
In my company we won’t do business with the business man that doesn’t use the products he sells . There are enough genuine businesses that believe in the value the products bring to the customers why deal with people whose only concern is the profit? That’s why them shavings oils from Taiwan are so pricy ! They have very modern equipment and that’s probably the biggest difference from other oils made in primitive old school equipment where controlling of every parameter is harder to achieve .

 

[The Scent Guru]

I for one like doing business with people who use the product they make . Who are they marketing to if they don’t use the products?
In my opinion the passion isn’t there when the product isn’t used by the one making and marketing it .
In the cannabis world it’s such a big money play with billions on the table everyone came running to get their piece .
Problem is they don’t even know what customers want or what is not wanted . It’s all numbers on paper not actual quality.
Yields, potency time frame , color yes but actual quality … no
Non users have no clue what consumers want and it’s beyond obvious.
In my company we won’t do business with the business man that doesn’t use the products he sells . There are enough genuine businesses that believe in the value the products bring to the customers why deal with people whose only concern is the profit? That’s why them shavings oils from Taiwan are so pricy ! They have very modern equipment and that’s probably the biggest difference from other oils made in primitive old school equipment where controlling of every parameter is harder to achieve .

you describe the major difference between science and art. My preference is to buy from an artist.

 

[Abu Amir]

I don't understand why people elevate this simple task to legendary status. I am confident that no one can distinguish between Taiwanese and other nationalities if they distill the same batch and extract oil from it.